Dear Allah

[pepecura]

I read your book but I am sorry you left me no choice.

I have just found out that according to you and your book Quran; I am moushrik, damned kaffir, refuser, arrogant ingrate, conceited, a cruel deserves to be killed, or burned in fire, a jealous tightwad deserves also mitigating punishment, and will go to hell directly.

....and many many many more insults, accusations, just becuase I had suspicion about your existence.

Interesting, WOW !I am so surprised to see how much hate you have in you.......anyways I had no choice, here is my response to all, hope you recieve it direct and fast:

eff YOU MORON.

[OnlyMark]

There's a bit more to this story pepe?

[happytraveller]

You know that the Quran (and the bible) were written by humans though Pepe

[pepecura]

Well, not much of a story but living in a conservative muslim society, you just need to fart such a bit from time to time.

HT, I really did not ever think there is another option...haha

[OnlyMark]

Pepe, you know relatively you don't particularly live in a conservative muslim society. I think it's about the same as where I am now. And to be honest, with the small amount it affects me, the benefits outweigh the downside.
I do understand the need to fart from time to time though.

[pepecura]

Sure, my country cannot be compared to the ones you experienced. You may have more benefits, or have peace with all, or found a magical way to deal with.....I dont know how much you are involved with the social and business life there, but you are a foreigner at the last fix and it is very well accepted that you will not follow muslim practices....

...but being surrounded by "selamun aleykum and inchallah" and Allah at every word and such, it is about too much sometimes really when you have no faith...and the thing is, you cannot express yourself most of the times freely, or just speak out. Not that I am complaining but, it gives you something to deal with at least.

[sprite]

i'm currently in a semi-conservative muslim state. i know i haven't been here long enough because i still willingly listen to the call to prayer when it comes on the radio.

this week i learned that not only must all businesses, offices, and schools close from 12-2pm on fridays, any local men not at prayers are fined.

there is a female wing of the religious police which deals with this. feminism, yet not.

[pepecura]

Thanks to Allah, we are not fined if we dont attend the Friday saled, YET. That sounds like hell, really.

Here, you will just hear a cold mentioning and if you start to attend you will recieve good praise.

[OnlyMark]

You are right and I did say the small amount it affects me - and that is because I am a foreigner and not really expected to involve myself in the same way. I still get the "selamun aleykum and inshallah", plus plenty of 'mumkin' and 'bukrah' but I do understand I am insulated from a lot of the whole religion thing - though I encounter religion here far more than I do in a Christian country.

"......you cannot express yourself most of the times freely, or just speak out." That is something of a problem to anyone. Naturally I don't do this, especially as being a 'guest' in the country and I view these things from the outside, not the inside as you do, so your frustration is understandable. However, I have come across a few christians who can be quite vocal in private company about both religions and that annoys me. It annoyed me so much one time that in Egypt I told the man to "Shut the eff up will you. You are a twat with twattish ideas" - the point being that the circumstances were I could speak up and it felt good, whereas if he had been a Muslim I wouldn't have.

[happytraveller]

Apr 23, 2013 10:42:28 GMT 2 @pepecura said:

...but being surrounded by "selamun aleykum and inchallah" and Allah at every word and such, it is about too much sometimes really when you have no faith...and the thing is, you cannot express yourself most of the times freely, or just speak out. Not that I am complaining but, it gives you something to deal with at least.

I can totally imagine how frustrating this could be !

[sprite]

i was at a party where a british woman began to tell the story of Allah hiding from a dog and being given up by it's wet nose. yes, Allah.
she also looks exactly like the 'only gay in the village' character from little britain. i have never been able to take her seriously since then.

[pepecura]

Not that much frustrating like it seems from outside, when you born into it you just get used to.

Thanks to I am not a kind looking for social acceptance and such, but that's mostly the issue of being and expressing yourself while you are still connected to the society....at one point, you look for some people like you, not a thing that could not be dealt at all though.

I was discussing with my wife the other day about this idea popped up in my mind, why not start a club ?

[slowcoach]

The UK has a number of Christian, Judeo-Christian and secular Public Holidays.

When in the mood I would give an explanation of why we were going to have a religious holiday to two or three Muslim lady colleagues, doing my best to remember what if any Islamic equivalents there are.

My word was it funny. What a hoot!

Just you try to explain the immaculate conception.

[pepecura]

Mark, you can never imagine saying that to a muslim here also...

Even when I expressed that I am not going to let my son to be circumsiced, even my "not so religious" family members were displayed a deep surprise, calling me godless turtle....in a funny way though ;D

[OnlyMark]

I had a mate who did free circumcisions.
He said he did it for the tips.

[pepecura]

Love your humor Jesus ! ;D

Attachments:

[pepecura]

I was wondering about Sharia courts in Britian, keep hearing interesting gossips about them wonder if those are true.

"Shariah courts in Britain: Evidence of women being asked to return to violent marriages, or give up their children to abusive partners."

[slowcoach]

As far as I understand such matters, It is quite permissible to use religious law in the UK to settle civil matters provided all parties consent. I think that this has always been the case but that it may have been clarified in more recent legislation. There is, as I understand it, nothing specific to Sharia.

We have traditional legal systems originating from the Church, the Crown, the Coroners, and antiquity. Until relatively recently most of UK family law was administered by the established church.

Others may know better, but many others get the advice on Islamic Law from the Daily Mail.

*********** Modified to add:

I have now watched a BBC Panorama Documentary on the operation of Sharia Councils in the UK, but mostly the one in Leyton. It was not a laugh a minute obviously. It really did not go into much detail, I suppose it was a heads-up look at this type of programme. Much of it turned on the fact that the women involved either didn't know that they cannot be legally coerced by these councils or found it necessary to use them for religious reasons. Unfortunately some of them were not legally married in the UK which complicates matters.

No mention was made of other religious divorces, e.g. Jewish and Roman Catholic, nor of the possibility of picking a more enlightened Sharia Council as Islamic interpretation is no more uniform in the UK than it is elsewhere.

At the root of it all, such councils only have the power that the applicants award them, which is commonly an awful lot being as it is the coercive power of the extended family and the community that is really brought to bear. Women and their children can often be protected from this but it comes at a social cost and I cannot see that UK law could do much to legislate against that eventuality.

[ninchursanga]

...but being surrounded by "selamun aleykum and inchallah" and Allah at every word and such, it is about too much sometimes really when you have no faith...and the thing is, you cannot express yourself most of the times freely, or just speak out. Not that I am complaining but, it gives you something to deal with at least.

I've got the Christian version of it here. It's 'god bless you' and "I'll pray for xyz" and all that jazz, and so many people wearing a cross necklace and you wouldn't believe how full the car parks are in front of the churches. The campus ministries just leave me flabbergasted, when young students crowd together....the most popular one is called CRU: Campus Crusade for Christ.
www.freeatvt.org/?p=90
Here's an account of one of their meetings, if you care.

Some time ago I joined the Freethinkers on our uni campus and have been even more flabbergasted when I hear students' accounts on how they have been ostracized for not being religious, or how they just can't tell their parents and immediate family.

For me it's worse than living in Turkey, cause there at least I had the foreigner bonus - I wasn't expected to participate - but here people automatically assume that I go to church and appreciate their prayers for me.

[slowcoach]

Thanks nin, for putting things into a perspective.

[OnlyMark]

The subject can be likened to a sexual organ.
You know you have one, I know you have one and you know I know you have one. But if you get it out and start waving it in my face.............

[Grecian]

"Ooh to....Oooh to be....Oooh to be... a Humanist!"

Thank eff I don't give a Tinker's Cuss about any Religion and I just think that Luke said it all in the Football Bible....

"And as you wish that others would do to you, do so to them"

Seems like a nice way to get through Life?

[pepecura]

Thanks Slowcoach....and Mark, haha could not explain at that effectiveness level really.

That's a great approach TinMan, only if everyone taking that way.

I captured a line from Kuran, yesterday. It was about wife and husband relationships: It was written in the Allah's book just like that, "the man is the director/manager of the house, we have given him extra talents because he is the earner. If wife does not confrom, you man should tell her to do so softly and gently, again if she keeps non-conforming you can ignore her in bed, and if she still keeps her behaviour you may beat them softly."

In my opinion that explains the violence against women in Islamic countries. I have read somewhere a man, he was saying that his neighbor was beating his wife and he could not stand but approached to tell him to stop, the reply he got "My Allah tells me to this so, who are you ?"

[happytraveller]

Apr 24, 2013 10:03:52 GMT 2 @pepecura said:

quot;the man is the director/manager of the house, we have given him extra talents because he is the earner. If wife does not confrom, you man should tell her to do so softly and gently, again if she keeps non-conforming you can ignore her in bed, and if she still keeps her behaviour you may beat them softly.

Heh... this can only have been written by a man

[pepecura]

My favorite part is "beating softly" makes me remember the "killing me softly" song weirdly.

[slowcoach]

Apr 24, 2013 10:42:34 GMT 2 happytraveller said:

Heh... this can only have been written by a man

Written by a man, revealed by God, and reinterpreted by all and sundry.

There lies the nub of so many problems of this world.

[pepecura]

Here you go slowcoach:

www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/david-cameron-stop-the-ingress-of-sharia-law-into-the-uk

[slowcoach]

Yes,

but is it not Islamophobic hate nonsense?

Again no mention of the wider position regard religious marriages.

As I have said we are fine with the Jewish, and Catholic systems, by and large.

Also there already is only one body of law for England and Wales.

Of course Scotland does have different laws and a different legal system perhaps we should campaign against that too.

I have had a quick look at the proposed legislation (which is going nowhere I think)

"Arbitration and Mediation Services (Equality) Bill (HL Bill 7)"

It seeks to change the rules of arbitration as its name suggests, it starts by requiring that there should be no discrimination between the sexes:

That is already the law in the UK,

it goes on to reintroduce that theme in other ways specific to Sharia Councils:

Again sexual discrimination is already illegal in the UK so this doesn't need fixing.

There is also this clause that seems very problematic;

80A Criminal and family law matters not arbitrable

10 Any matter which is within the jurisdiction of the criminal or family
courts cannot be the subject of arbitration proceedings.

Now that is to carry the threat of a prison sentence.

In matters that are in the jurisdiction of UK courts, those courts can be used, it is as simple as that. It seeks to make an offense of people choosing to ignore their rights under law. It is draconian and I suspect may even be in breach of human rights.

---

It is sad because there are large issues, and ones that such law will not fix. There seems to be a likelihood that restricting such practices in the UK will merely lead to the problem moving out of our jurisdiction with negative consequences.

As it happens I think that there is little and no chance of such an amendment being passed.

Finally, much of the real cause for concern is already covered by UK law, much of what is bad about the Sharia Council in the Panorama documentary is already preventable under UK law.

[Grecian]

Are you a Muslim, Slow Coach?

(So much of what you Post I find hard to believe but I haven't got the time to Joust with you or bother to have a go at you..)

[pepecura]

Do you really think it is preventable ? I do not have enough knowledge about this but I doubt the UK law can cover everything, every single issue and every possible issue can happen which would be issued under sharia court.

I am not sure I am getting this right...every religion gets their own court, it is democratic and can function, and there is one mother law upon them ?...what about in the long run ?
How about secularism ?