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Post by pepecura on Apr 25, 2013 14:49:37 GMT 2
Another pick from Kur'an, saying openly, clearly and directly:
4/ Nisa 16 : "torture to those who commit prostitution, both of them."
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Post by pepecura on Apr 25, 2013 15:16:06 GMT 2
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Post by ninchursanga on Apr 25, 2013 17:10:27 GMT 2
The flogging is quite disturbing, and like the woman says what is more disturbing is the lack of empathy amont the men who watch. www.alternet.org/bizarre-christian-quiverfull-movement-pushing-women-procreate-gods-armyHere's a nice article about the Christian counterpart. You know for every quote in the Q'ran that is violent and explains the women's subordinate status, you can find another one in the bible. In Christianity, there are plenty of people who are walking right back into the middle ages and they are as dangeorus as fundamentalist muslims.
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Post by Hedonista on Apr 25, 2013 17:11:32 GMT 2
I also think all religion is a bunch of bollocks but I do think it creates more beautiful things than bad things by bringing people together. Look at the magnificent cathedrals of Europe and the beauty of islamic art.
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Post by Grecian on Apr 25, 2013 19:45:25 GMT 2
You are off on one, peps, aren't you!!
What has brought this on?
Sounds to me like you need to pop down to that Bridge and dangle your maggot over the side and relax!
As regards Art and Religion, I so wonder about the following...
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Post by sprite on Apr 26, 2013 6:54:00 GMT 2
yeah, but that branch are freaks.
i do hate fundamentalists. of any religion. they suck all the joy out of living, and then wonder why people don't voluntarily join them. duh, it's cause you freaks make hell look fun!
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Post by Grecian on Apr 26, 2013 19:37:22 GMT 2
Who are you answering there??
Apart from that; good point and well made...
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Post by pepecura on Apr 27, 2013 11:59:17 GMT 2
Art and Religion ?
Will think about that !
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Post by Grecian on Apr 28, 2013 20:46:34 GMT 2
They normally go hand in hand but not to the extreme that I posted at #34!
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Post by pepecura on Apr 29, 2013 15:32:29 GMT 2
#34 ....That is not a big surprise for me...But I wonder what do you wonder about that ?
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Post by Tilly Star on Apr 29, 2013 16:03:57 GMT 2
I’m not sure a bit of art, no matter how amazing, makes up for all the atrocities that happen in the name of religion. As for bringing people together, there are other ways of doing this that are less damaging.
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Post by sprite on Apr 29, 2013 16:21:56 GMT 2
hospitals, fights for human rights, fights against dictatorship, schools, welfare programs... all part of many organised religions.
are there freaks? yes. but there are agnostic freaks and atheist freaks and pantheist freaks and hippie freaks... any organisation is going to support the development of a nutjob power-hungry group--not on purpose, but simply by dint of being an organisation.
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Post by Grecian on Apr 29, 2013 19:32:23 GMT 2
But, as far as I know, they don't kill other people or destroy works of Art in the name of Hippydom...etc?
Peps? As far as I am concerned, any work of Art like that in #34 should be treasured for generations and 1,000's of years - but then I am not a radical To55er why would take offence to that and just see it as it is - a wonderous and massive sculpture.
I will go as far to say that many propaganda and works of 'Art' produced by Germany before and during WW2 should be placed in frames and admired for what they are.
I see that a major Minoret has recently been bombed in Syria and both sides are blaming each other....
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Post by pepecura on May 7, 2013 8:11:08 GMT 2
Freaks ? I have not heard anyone killing lives in the name of Atheism or stoning a woman just because she had a sex without registering it to Allah, Sprite. Dont know what your freak concept is but I'd call those freaks.
Religions fighting against dictatorship, fighting for human rights, building schools and welfare programs ?? HAH ! Not in the world I see !
Tin, sorry to answer here late..
Muslim minds work in different manner. Islam takes it a huge insult and threat any kind of object or thought seen equal to Allah. In Kuran, it is widely described that those statues are useless and must be destroyed. There is only one Allah and nothing more. At the times when Mohamed lived, there were thousands of gods, idols, basically statues...People used to believe in them, in Kuran it says that people created their own gods and gone on the wrong way. There is one Allah, and it's prophet is Mohamed....The book says, those people who believe in the gods they created gave the worst treat to Muslims with tortures and such, so still now when muslims see any statues which may mention or indicate a eqaulancy to Allah is percieved big threat. The hatred is pumped in Kuran.
Who cares the art ? They will die as muslims and live in heaven in the exotic gardens, waterfalls with unlimited supply of women, food, and wine.
Even in "secular" Turkey, there was a statue in the city of Van. Symbolizing Human Rights and Peace.
They tore it down and a group next watching and yelling "Allahu Ekber! ( Allah is the biggest) " .
It does not mean anything for those really, how old it is and what it is telling about and what kind of artistic features does it offer or anything else.....
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Post by pepecura on May 7, 2013 8:36:19 GMT 2
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Post by pepecura on May 7, 2013 8:41:22 GMT 2
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Post by Grecian on May 8, 2013 20:04:06 GMT 2
All going above my head, to be honest!
I know what I like and what I see and ANY carving made out of stone to the scale they did needs preserving for future generations...
Religion, like Politics and Football, is all down to the 'Fans'....
Take the Belief away and you have nothing - apart from their legacy which is their Art...
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Post by pepecura on May 9, 2013 15:14:01 GMT 2
Those are not under discussion, for the preservation of any carving. But I hope I could be able to explain the mentality.
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Post by Grecian on May 10, 2013 20:40:05 GMT 2
You get mentality in all walks of life ...even without Religion or Football....
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Post by sprite on May 11, 2013 12:56:48 GMT 2
the fight against slavery? priests in colonial south america fighting to have the locals recognised as having souls so that they could have rights, and not be considered animals by those wanting to use them for labour? the velvet revolution?
of course some people claimed they were destroying the buddhas to prevent idolatry. but many of their co-religionists were aghast that they would do such a thing. and we all know it had nothing to do with relgion--they were simply proving that they would do whatever they wanted and could not be stopped. not a religious message, but a political one.
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Post by sprite on May 11, 2013 13:01:11 GMT 2
and i get what the poster is driving at, but it essentially says, 'if you are a police officer, and a fellow officer tortures an accused person, you are partially responsible because you agreed to be a member of a fraternal organisation.'
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Post by ninchursanga on May 11, 2013 18:28:10 GMT 2
The latest local thing here at uni is some religiously affiliated group who tries to built a pro-life student organisation. It's disgusting, imho. These organisations are very well funded and they send a person here who is paid to set up such an organisation. They started off in february and it's unbelievable how active they've been and the events they organised to convince people that abortion is murder. Their latest slogan is "Some personal decisions are just wrong" - comparing abortion to slavery.
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Post by Grecian on May 12, 2013 19:45:05 GMT 2
You live in a 3rd World Country like Ireland, Ninch'?...
I assumed that all that Shite came under the Catholiscism 'umbrella'?...
That's a Religion, isn't it?.....
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Post by shrjeff on May 13, 2013 7:40:33 GMT 2
nope, tinny... nin is living in a third world country like the south-eastern u.s. ... and the religious types of which she speaks come under the protestant umbrella...
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Post by ninchursanga on May 13, 2013 12:58:12 GMT 2
What shrjeff said. I think Southern Baptist is the real thing around here. Last night someone told me that "atheist" was the new 'gay' around here.
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Post by lumi on May 13, 2013 14:12:09 GMT 2
It's been interesting reading this thread thus far.
I don't have alot to add but wanted to say that I get annoyed with all the religious status updates that friends make on facebook. Do I really need to read a quite from the bible as your status? Do I really need to read that you thank allah or god for this or that? I wish people could seperate the event they want to tell about and their religion.
It is quite interesting for me to read the comments on Turkey in this thread as I will be relocating there in about a month. And coming from the UAE I am actually looking forward to it as I perceive it as being less religious and conservative (in Istanbul at least) than it is here in Abu Dhabi. For one there are no legal restrictions for non-muslims or muslims (as far as I know) during Ramadan which prevent a snack or sip of water etc in public. And I will be bale to wear a strappy top/shirt without sleeves without feeling too exposed.
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Post by slowcoach on May 13, 2013 14:43:52 GMT 2
The destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas led to an interesting and, given the reasoning, ironic consequence. A previously undisclosed cave system was revealed which proved to be decorated with murals of the same period or perhaps a little older.
My understanding is that they are of a Buddhist nature and at least one depicts a Buddha. Their current global significance comes from their being performed in an oil based medium, a fact which is now scientifically confirmed, making them the oldest oil paintings known to exist anywhere on Earth and hence potentially hugely important.
It's a funny old world.
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Post by Grecian on May 13, 2013 20:56:07 GMT 2
Lumi?...I don't know you and have never had any contact with you on any Forum - your Name always rings a Bell but we have never crossed swords or had any interaction...
I am assuming you are a Female and have woken up and been enlightened via The Internet?
You live in either The UAE or Abu Dhabi and you are Fecked; being a Female...You are a 2nd Citizen...
Turkey is a good Stepping Stone and you can wear there what you say to a certain extent - before you start to get friendly with the Locals there..
You sound like you are so suppressed being a Female in the Kuntry you are in...
I wish you well but also worry about you...
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Post by lumi on May 14, 2013 16:54:48 GMT 2
I tend to stay away from Flushed TinMan and didn't realise that I'd ventured there with this thread.
I can ensure you that it is not the internet that has enlightened me and Abu Dhabi is the capital of the UAE for your knowledge.
It is lovely that you worry about me but I can assure you that there is no need. I am very capable and I'd dare say much more so than many women you know.
As for the topic of this thread, I was merely wishing to add what I know and have experienced as a Western expat living in a muslim country. I thought I was in a unique position to comment given the aforementioned details so hope it added some value to this thread.
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Post by ninchursanga on May 14, 2013 19:32:32 GMT 2
I have to defend the Southerners a bit though. Non-religious people seem to be a minority, but they do exist. Last Saturday I was invited to a music jam session at someone's farm faaaaar out in the countryside. It turned out all the liberals, non-believers and non-hillbilly people had crawled out of their remote farms and gathered together. It was very interesting event to attend.
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