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Post by gnd on Mar 8, 2013 22:43:48 GMT 2
Aw I knew of your ways tinman yep on another forum needn´t be named RIP--I was teasing you!
Well, since we´re discussing bizarro cases in general. All the craziness of that NY woman/mother killed in Turkey---pretending to be single/no kids, meeting men irl she´d only met online a few months before, going off on a few tangent trips to nearby countries for not necessarily known reasons...And of course a homeless man is being accused of killing her
Whew. Yes the world is bizarro mad. And I can´t remember the name of that Bizarro comic I used to like which always seemed to put a humorous twist on real life...
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Post by Grecian on Mar 14, 2013 22:17:38 GMT 2
What's the latest on the Single White Female in Turkey as all the news here is about the Fucking Pope... 'Over 25% of Schoolgirls in Safferland are HIV+'..  ? I really can't belive that stat'... www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-21783076 |
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Post by outside cat @wino on Mar 15, 2013 11:16:41 GMT 2
The sleeping sickness is rife in Africa
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Post by Grecian on Mar 15, 2013 22:59:51 GMT 2
But 25% of Schoolgirls??
Someone from Safferland should be able to take the pi55 out of that statistic?
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Post by outside cat @wino on Mar 17, 2013 5:51:11 GMT 2
Not if its factual?
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 17, 2013 8:55:27 GMT 2
The issue is way too serious and complex for me to even enter into this debate on Flushed.
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Post by missalaska on Mar 17, 2013 11:22:12 GMT 2
Yup I agree gobs.
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Post by Grecian on Mar 17, 2013 21:57:05 GMT 2
So, is it anywhere near 25% Stop being coy, you two...post links or something as, at the moment, I really can't believe that shite.... (I assume that the majority of the 25% is from birth and only a small % is from un protected Sex?..) |
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 18, 2013 6:32:22 GMT 2
It is probably correct and a small percentage of that would have been from birth
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 18, 2013 6:50:28 GMT 2
Tinman, why don't you share your source and see if that gives any insight?
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 18, 2013 6:52:06 GMT 2
The sleeping sickness is rife in Africa Never hear of HIV being called the sleeping sickness, please explain why you refer to it as such? |
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Post by outside cat @wino on Mar 18, 2013 9:49:20 GMT 2
In the early days of the HIV/AIDS reporting it had various names in non developed countries and that was a name given to it. I think in Africa there is a proper sleeping sickness disease?
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 18, 2013 10:16:15 GMT 2
Well exactly, there is a 'Sleeping Sickness' which is totally different to HIV and considering the amount of ignorance and misinformation around HIV it does worry me to see unscientific terms like that being used.
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 18, 2013 10:24:34 GMT 2
And TBH, I have never heard of HIV/Aids being called a sleeping sickness, and I work in the field ..
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Post by outside cat @wino on Mar 18, 2013 12:59:01 GMT 2
Might have got it mixed up with the use of the word slimming.........so looks like I was wrong.
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Post by Grecian on Mar 18, 2013 21:03:05 GMT 2
Wino is, indeed, a Wino!
Everyone knows that 'Sleeping Sickness' is not HIV, don't they?
Gobs? My source is my link in my Post #46...
The BBC rarely get it wrong....Apart from employing Jimmy Savile...
And it looks like Aaron Motsoaledi is putting the blame on Grooming 'Sugar Daddies' and not kids of the same age Sex...
It says that he is 'has been widely praised for his efforts to curb the disease.' and yet reading the article, it seems that he is rumo(u)r mongering.
Really interested on your take on this, Gobs and Mi55Slacker...Honest!
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Post by outside cat @wino on Mar 18, 2013 21:16:57 GMT 2
You may be correct tinscrotum
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 18, 2013 21:41:05 GMT 2
We have a high infection rate
If you look at the difference between infection rate between school boys and school girls you will see that it is not through mother to child transmission
South Africa is a poor country (I think I showed you some of that tinman?) and a lot of parents are dying from Aids and leaving young children (as young as 10) in charge of families. These children need to fend for, feed and raise children younger than themselves, and often turn to prostitution or to a sugar daddy to get money. As they have no power the adult male will refuse to use a condom and oftentimes knows that he is infected and knowingly infects young girls.
That is the tip of the ice berg and one minute detail of the problem that we are facing.
The minister of health has indeed been more successful than his predecessor (who was an aids denialist and suggested that people with HIV should eat beetroot and garlic) and he has managed to implement a massive roll out of ARV's and there are more people who have access to free ARV's.
HIV has become a chronic illness as long as you are taking your ARV's as prescribed, and the new minister of health has done a lot in terms of education, training and roll out. More to be done but we were, not so long ago, the highest prevalence in the world, and we have fortunately shaken that label.
Our previous minister and president did a lot of damage to our fight against this disease and they created a lot of ignorance and incorrect messaging to the 'masses'.
And NO HIV is not a black or gay virus, each and every single one of us who has multiple partners (or who has an unfaithful partner) is susceptible to HIV
ENDS
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Post by slowcoach on Mar 19, 2013 1:15:31 GMT 2
gobhoza.
Do have any comments about Elizabeth Pisani, I watched an interview with her and it is clear that she is very certain of herself and her point of view but I have little idea as to how correct she is and by implication who wrong headed many other people are on the subject of HIV/AIDs.
The interview coincided with the launch of her book "The Wisdom of Whores", which I haven't read.
If you have heard of her I would welcome your thoughts. If you haven't that would say something about her relevance to the SADC countries
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Post by missalaska on Mar 19, 2013 9:39:40 GMT 2
However we also are facing an ARV dissemination crisis at the moment where some clinics are critically understocked, putting at risk 'healthy HIV' sufferers because their meds are going to the more needy 'ill HIV sufferers' making the healthy ones vulnerable.
We work with an after school club provider, they trained our team in children's rights ahead of the team working with intermediate phase learners (age 10-13) and when researching a play for a teenage audience last year the first thing mentioned by them was 'sugar daddy'.
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 19, 2013 12:16:38 GMT 2
Just listened to a lecture of hers and it seems that she gives absolutely no thought to the complexities of (South) Africa, she speaks on the premise that people are educated and can make educated choices, she does not speak at all of a patriarchal society that completely dis empowers women and removes choices from them.
What she says may be true in first world countries but she is living in a dream world if she thinks that that is the solution to the epidemic in Africa
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Post by missalaska on Mar 19, 2013 14:34:33 GMT 2
I really think people totally underestimate the vast cultural and diversity challenges in this country and the barriers it brings, never mind the poverty trap.
For example the One Billion Rising Valentine's Day event, the carnival assisted with staging demos in different communities. What was appropriate in one community (traditionally low income and coloured community) was inappropriate for another community (township largely Xhosa community), I'm talking about the wording on placards that women would rally behind as their voice in response to the gang rape and subsequent death of a young girl in the province a week or so previous.
On the radio the other day a caller openly said 'a woman's place is in the home' - the discussion was about the rise of women in sectors such as mining.
With under resourced and 'failing' schools, high unemployment and many women employed outside of the formal workforce, as domestic workers - e.g. the lady in my house now as I type - I bet it is damn hard for the average teenage girl, who still has their mother around, to aspire to great things, never mind the pressure of bringing up a family without parents. I find that many people can only think of the now, not the future when they are living hand to mouth.
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 19, 2013 20:18:15 GMT 2
I will tell you a true story of a little girl who has HIV.
Her mother was raised in a rural area, she only attended a few years of school and is largely illiterate. She meets a man and falls in love, they have sex, he refuses to wear a condom, as a woman who has no say in a patriarchal society and who has not had the benefit of sex education or the internet/books/videos/educational material to a) understand how she could become infected and b) that she actually does have rights as a woman to say no, not without a condom.
She become infected with the virus, but she does not know it, she has not read the material, she has heard of AIDS but it is propaganda, a disease created by the white man to eradicate black people or to scare them into not having sex and therefore not procreating. She has no way to explore the facts, she can't read, has no access to the internet and other resources.
She gets pregnant, her family and society have stigmatised HIV so much that she refuses the testing that normally happens when she is pregnant. The elders, and those that she trust tell her that it is governments way of controlling her. She is scared if she gets tested she will be ostracized by her family and her community.
She gives birth to a perfect little baby girl. Time goes by and it becomes increasingly apparent that the mother is ill, the father finally admits that he is HIV positive and that the mother should get tested. Social workers ensure that the baby is tested and at 6 months old the baby tests positive for HIV. Social workers inform the mother and encourage her to get tested. She eventually agrees and gets tested, only, she will not take the medicine because her church has told her that the meds are toxic. The church prays for her and 'heals' her. Her family turn their back on her, her and the father have since split up and she really does not know where to turn or who to trust. Again, she doesn't have google, reading material, a library, friends who are educated ......
Eventually she asks the Social workers for help, they get her on ARV's but it is too late and within 6 weeks she succumbs.
Her daughter, will live with HIV, her daughter is being cared for and is taking ARV's, but had the mother had a bit more education, had she been literate, had she been able to read the material they gave her at clinic, her baby could have been born virus free and she could still be alive today.
Did she make bad choices, or did she just not know better?
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Post by Grecian on Mar 19, 2013 22:16:45 GMT 2
Lovely and great replies there and thank you all - I appreciate that...
I will re-read your posts and reply, if I need to, in due course....
I am glad that some heart felt and knowledgeable replies, finally, came out as it is a Major subject concerning not just South Africa but The World...
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Post by gnd on Mar 20, 2013 0:09:21 GMT 2
They should have TOLD her in a language she understood, not give it to her to read.
and "many people can only think of the now, not the future when they are living hand to mouth." That goes for many things, from this to the environment, as if it comes down to feeding your kids/yourself, regardless of the topic, of course you would naturally try to live, survive. I am including even Americans/those living in the US in this, albeit maybe still more a cushy place, has its own problems.
----
I thought the HIV rate of atleast girls, was due to rape, as men would try to have a virgin, so to make sure she is "clean".
-----
yes, agree with Tinman reply 68
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Post by slowcoach on Mar 20, 2013 2:31:24 GMT 2
gobhoza,
Thanks for your reply above, she is not without influence, books, lectures, etc.. I think that at best she is perhaps a bit one size fits all given what you have said. I didn't intend to put you yo any trouble.
That's rhetorical, right?
Unfree people make neither good nor bad choices. Those that lack the necessary education, empowerment, support, protection from coercion, are not free agents, they are not culpable for consequences they are not equipped to expect arising from circumstances they are not fit to judge. That is not a universal cop out for decisions where she does know good from bad, wisdom from folly, and could resist.
It takes education, support, and empowerment to be reckless in any meaningful way.
There are reasons whereby minors, and the disabled, are granted additional rights in some societies, that address their unpreparedness or inability to be free.
Ahem (End of Lefty Libertarian Rant)
*********
I defer to you and missalaska but I would like to pick up on one word: PROPAGANDA.
Even after education, support, access to the internet, there remains the challenge of the (self proclaimed) "dissenters", their websites and their videos.
This being not an indigenous RSA issue, but an assault from without.
I have to confess a fascination with propaganda, I guess I am a bit sad. I like to see how it works, how it is done.
I found the video "House of Numbers" to be so pernicious, I watched it twice back to back, just to try to see how flips into the looking glass world so artfully.
I can see how some it is done. you use old information, state mistakes that have been corrected but fail to mention the correction, sprinkle them into interviews with real experts and then edit out everything else but the things that support your viewpoint. But I am sure that there are still other bits in it that I found convincing that I shouldn't have, and perhaps worse I have come to doubt things that are correct because they were included.
*************
To my recollection there were representations from the "dissenter" "AID$" contingent to the Mbeke government at a time when there was no way that RSA could afford to pay the dollar price being asked for drugs and people were looking for useful political alternatives and scapegoats. I am not an apologist for that government I am merely saying they were helped from without.
Thanks to you both for writing what you have, you have been robust and that is helpful.
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 20, 2013 7:02:56 GMT 2
They should have TOLD her in a language she understood, not give it to her to read. and "many people can only think of the now, not the future when they are living hand to mouth." That goes for many things, from this to the environment, as if it comes down to feeding your kids/yourself, regardless of the topic, of course you would naturally try to live, survive. I am including even Americans/those living in the US in this, albeit maybe still more a cushy place, has its own problems. ---- I thought the HIV rate of atleast girls, was due to rape, as men would try to have a virgin, so to make sure she is "clean". ----- yes, agree with Tinman reply 68 GND, you cannot TELL someone as serious as this in any language, where does she verify the information? how does she go back and reflect on what has been told to her? With all due respect, and I know you did not mean it so, but that is a very patronising response |
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 20, 2013 7:04:06 GMT 2
slowcoach, no trouble at all, I was interested to find out a bit about her. Interesting, one of my colleagues worked for the Treatment Action Campaign and has not heard of her either.
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Post by outside cat @wino on Mar 20, 2013 12:23:49 GMT 2
So the relationship between HIV and condoms I understand, basically if a woman wants to be HIV free and have a family her partner must be HIV free as well. If she can't find one like that then no babys will be born.... Have I interpreted these posts correctly?
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Post by gnd on Mar 20, 2013 13:03:39 GMT 2
"Did she make bad choices, or did she just not know better?" How can anyone make any choice, really and truly, or not know better, if their education consists of a leaflet and the other "facts" etc as you say. If no one actually educated will educate these women on this, then nothing will change.
(Patronise)Treat with an apparent kindness that betrays a feeling of superiority---sorry you feel that way. "Did she make bad choices, or did she just not know better?" And I felt that was patronising. She made the only "choice" she was allowed, probably the exact same "choice" any of us would have in that same situation described.
Sorry if you think my suggestion to try to actually educate women in that situation is patronising to you or to them. And no, I don´t see why my comment was offensive.
(noted to say this is not posted in an angry manner, I´m not offended in the least, and did not mean to offend anyone either)
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