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Post by slowcoach on Mar 20, 2013 13:27:48 GMT 2
wino,
I don't think it is that simple, at least in countries where a full range of assisted reproductive technology is available. Stuff like IVF.
If it is the female that is HIV positive then perhaps AI, but mostly it would be ask an expert time.
gobhoza,
Thanks
******* Modified to add:
wino,
the name slim was used in Uganda, perhaps other places to begin with, in French or Spanish. and perhaps other non english speaking countries they use the acronym SIDA.
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 20, 2013 14:50:17 GMT 2
Wino - I am not sure of the facts but apparently once you have the viral load to undetectable then the virus is no longer transmitted sexually, so if your partner is undectable then one would assume you could have children (this is something I have heard recently and as my work is more with children affected and infected it is not something I have explored) and what slowcoach said
Nothing is simple about this virus ......... and it is even more complicated in an environment of poverty, patriarchal leadership, lack of women's rights ...
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 20, 2013 14:56:32 GMT 2
GND, the point I am making is that we cannot TELL people things that they are unable to verify, see the results, understand, question ...... your TOLD in caps was the bit that got me, which shows little understanding for the situation, and I should be more forgiving as you don't know what it is like here.
For instance - your child has, to you, a common cold - your doctor tells you that your child needs to go on serious toxic (arv's are toxic and have some horrible side effects) treatment for the rest of his life - you just accept? You have, after all been told, maybe even been given an explanation. Do you just accept what that doctor has TOLD you? Or what do you do
Seek a second opinion? Well, basically, I cannot afford to feed my family, the information I have been given is at the only free clinic in my area so I do not have the option of a second opinion, so I should just believe what someone has TOLD me?
And I am not angry either, I am trying ot help you understand the complexity of it.
You cannot tell people about HIV when there are so many myths, so much stigma, so much misinformation
And the myth is that a virgin can cure HIV, that is why a lot of HIV infected men will rape babies because they believe it will cure them.
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Post by Ethel Mertz on Mar 20, 2013 19:53:27 GMT 2
And the myth is that a virgin can cure HIV, that is why a lot of HIV infected men will rape babies because they believe it will cure them. Dear God, I'd not heard of this horrific belief. Tragic and depressing. Thanks, Gobs, for educating us as to why the problem is so rampant in SA.
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Post by outside cat @wino on Mar 20, 2013 21:17:32 GMT 2
Wow....interesting topic.
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 20, 2013 21:28:37 GMT 2
I separated the threads as they are in no way related and it makes sense to have them separated.
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Post by gnd on Mar 21, 2013 13:37:27 GMT 2
I am aware of all that info, that is that complicated and has been for a long time. I didn´t mean to shout with the all caps. I do realize this is not an easy issue to explain, and why; and that mostly it affects the black community, and mostly of that the women and children. As this is the internet you could not hear or see my discussion, and focused unfortunately on that one word, assuming I was assuming you had missed such a simple solution. Sorry bout that. I think some of the solutions to educate are very innovative, such as realizing going to bars, places where people gather and socialize, to educate there as conventional places haven´t worked as good. To try something that works for there specifically, or that might do. And to educate the men, who perpetuate the powerful myths. Even though raping a child won´t cure them, having sex with a virgin will also not give them a disease...unless of course the full circle of the baby catching it from the mother who caught it from the father... I´m not being unforgiving; I´m trying to understand why a leaflet to an illiterate person. It is pointless to give a leaflet to someone who can not read, not understand what is read, and to actually try to explain to that person in words they can understand would be better. Yes I am not from there, but I have newspapers, books, internet, info, education, and I have friends who are from Pretoria, Durban, etc who I´ve known for decades, so I have their knowledge too. --- Sorry, if it seems I am specifically blaming you or anyone not doing a good job. It´s frustrating when sometimes all one can do to help is rock the babies...(yeah I don´t feel like explaining that one)...
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Post by sprite on Mar 21, 2013 17:01:06 GMT 2
i wouldn't call gnd's response 'patronising' but perhaps too easy, facile. we can tell people about their health until they are blue in the face, but if they've already heard differently from people they trust, why would they listen to someone they barely know? someone they've been primed to believe is going to lie to them?
it's very similar to the whole vaccination debacle. people wanted to believe that pharm companies are just after money, they wanted to believe that there was an easy way to avoid a scary problem--and when the solution was presented, they ran with it!
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 21, 2013 17:44:00 GMT 2
I am going to leave it at this because you have missed the point completely. If teaching and educating men was so easy, it would have been done. we may be Afica but we have some bright people working in the HIV field who have explored options, experimented, designed new ways of comunication, created videos, printed pamphlets, done street theatre, gone door to door, got black male celebs to take a stand ..... our situation is very complex and it really is not just a matter of telling, there is the whole issue of mistrust, credibility of the person giving the message (and they often lose credibility for standing out and talking). Our illiteracy rate and unemployment rate are sky high, if I cannot feed my children and my only option is having unprotected sex with a man and putting myself at risk - I will do that to feed my children (and I am talking about a family that has potentially not eaten in days). How do you start to educate someone who doesn't have food in their tummy?
Really, it is very complex and one of the reasons I did not want to get into this here but somehow let myself get dragged in
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 21, 2013 17:44:57 GMT 2
And I am not suggesting that they give a leaflet to a illiterate person, I am pointing out that illiterate people have no access to proper information because they cannot read.
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Post by gnd on Mar 21, 2013 18:52:02 GMT 2
And I am not suggesting that they give a leaflet to a illiterate person, I am pointing out that illiterate people have no access to proper information because they cannot read. Sorry, I didn´t realize the only reason they don´t have access to information on HIV AIDS is because they are illiterate. Because yes I did assume actual humans would speak with them. I appreciate your explaining, educating me on that point:) I do forget how vast an area even SA is, and how difficult it must be to actually talk, let alone discuss in detail such a topic, to so many. Again, thanks for your patience, and sorry I´m obtuse.
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Post by gnd on Mar 21, 2013 18:54:45 GMT 2
I am going to leave it at this because you have missed the point completely. If teaching and educating men was so easy, it would have been done. we may be Afica but we have some bright people working in the HIV field who have explored options, experimented, designed new ways of comunication, created videos, printed pamphlets, done street theatre, gone door to door, got black male celebs to take a stand ..... our situation is very complex and it really is not just a matter of telling, there is the whole issue of mistrust, credibility of the person giving the message (and they often lose credibility for standing out and talking). Our illiteracy rate and unemployment rate are sky high, if I cannot feed my children and my only option is having unprotected sex with a man and putting myself at risk - I will do that to feed my children (and I am talking about a family that has potentially not eaten in days). How do you start to educate someone who doesn't have food in their tummy? Really, it is very complex and one of the reasons I did not want to get into this here but somehow let myself get dragged in though, yes, I am aware and have been for long time of all these issues and complications, as I said.
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Post by Grecian on Mar 21, 2013 20:57:40 GMT 2
I separated the threads as they are in no way related and it makes sense to have them separated. You haven't separated them very well as both are saying the same thing! Looks like gnd got out of her/his depth on this Topic - not for the first time!
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Post by Grecian on Mar 25, 2013 21:05:30 GMT 2
As a slight aside, I noticed that the deciding match of the 5 match series of One Dayers between the Saffers and Pakistan was only at Benoni, yesterday!!
I assume the Benoni Queen went and flashed her ample boobs at Kallis?
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 26, 2013 10:10:38 GMT 2
Well, if you hadn't pissed me off on facebook AGAIN so you are no longer a friend, you would have seen pics of the cricket in Benoni on Sunday and thank you very much, i had a lovely birthday yesterday, hardly even missed your annual phone call to wish me
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Post by missalaska on Mar 26, 2013 10:49:42 GMT 2
Can I also point out that in at least one culture here, if a married couple can't conceive then the husband's brother may be encouraged to have sex with his sister in law (unbeknown to husband). If she falls pregnant she is expected to behave as though it is her husband's child.
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Post by sprite on Mar 26, 2013 11:47:27 GMT 2
everytime i come in here, i see different stuff in different orders. i swear this thread is haunted.
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Post by missalaska on Mar 26, 2013 11:48:47 GMT 2
I currently work in the field of outreach community education through arts in South Africa, not on HIV/AIDS but on other issues and for other purposes and there is a whole load of barriers to get through before even getting to the beneficiaries.
And then there are the beneficiaries and a whole set of other challenges
gobs... I was watching the criget and was wondering if you were there.
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Post by sprite on Mar 26, 2013 11:50:19 GMT 2
and yes, i deleted what have been reply 46 because it didn't make sense anymore.
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 26, 2013 12:03:12 GMT 2
Your response was brilliant and made lots of sense Sprite!!!!
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Post by gnd on Mar 26, 2013 13:29:46 GMT 2
Not really. I´ve been aware of the myriad issues since atleast when in uni. Being aware of the myriad of issues of this topic, even for African countries, could still be different when dealing in that specific place HIV-AIDS with children and adults, men and women, culture, traditions, the weather, transportation, education, economy, superstition, religion, familial support,disabilities,etc.
I said I was sorry that I misunderstood that they gave written leaflets to explain to illiterate women, and imho there is no scenario that should be happening. Gobhoza said that was not the case. I appreciated her patience in explaining that.
FYI, in some parts of African countries, the caregivers are illiterate and they themselves do not understand the leaflets, or how to give the children their medicines and when. That happens today. Verbal counseling is always recommended. But, yes, stupid of me to get annoyed with your comment Tinman that my asking a question makes me out of my depth, but it does annoy me. I apparently annoyed gobhoza by my being obtuse asking about the leaflets, hence your comment, to put me in my place.
Again, stupid of me to get mad. But this is flushed, and I can enjoy a flounce now and again for a few minutes atleast!
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Post by Grecian on Mar 27, 2013 21:18:43 GMT 2
If you could excuse me for a minute from the Saffer HIV/AIDS situation, then I will post on here as I know I am totally out of my depth as regards the knowledge that you above have on the subject...but then I am glad, in a way, that it has been brought up so to educate a few; including me...
You just keep on posting, gnd, as you know far more than me and your thoughts are valid...
Gobs! SO! It was you that defiended me on Face Wank?? What did I post, this time? I must admit that my post of 'You are Brian's WiNdow' was ok?
And a Happy Birthday to you!...50, is it?...;-)
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 29, 2013 21:05:41 GMT 2
Yes, TinMan, Brian's WiNdow is very funny, rather amusing actually ..... NOT, you jumped in with your usual sensitivity.
I just don't get how the person who really was my rock for the first 18 months after Brian died (you) can be such an arsewipe sometimes. Oh wait, I should be over my husband by now right???
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Post by sprite on Mar 30, 2013 18:10:10 GMT 2
you seem to know TM well, does he actually mean half the shit he says here? i thought he was pure wind up.
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 30, 2013 18:27:44 GMT 2
He is one of those weird creatures that has two personalities an online offensive one, which he thinks should be entertaining and he really is just helping us all out by making a very boring forum so much more interesting with his contributions
Then there is the offline person, who I really like a lot, have travelled with (Portugal and India, if you look on flushed you will see our respective India travel diaries), have visited him, he has visited me and he is a really nice chap. And spent hours online with me in the early hours of the morning after my husband died and I could not sleep and he chatted, entertained, empathised, and read my rants and aches and hurt and weeps. He even got the odd midnight call saying 'I can't do this' and he convinced me I could.
So, he had multiple personality disorder - others haven't had as nice experiences as mine though and I think he is worried that the ghost of Brian may haunt him so he tries to stay on my right side!
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Post by sprite on Mar 31, 2013 6:50:28 GMT 2
good to know. buried in here, hopefully this won't destroy his street cred.
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Post by gobhoza on Mar 31, 2013 7:51:15 GMT 2
Thing is ..... no-one believes me ;D
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Post by Grecian on Mar 31, 2013 21:15:36 GMT 2
Is there a 'Like Button' on here??
Gobs at #54 has it about right...Great Post there...and I am surprised that none of my Enemies online have cottoned on and ripped that apart...
Still Love ya, Gobs..
My post on Face Wank - Brian's WiNdow' could have been taken several ways ok?...But what about that you are here and you are his WiNdow on the Earth now?...for him?
I just thought it was a tad different to all the Replies that you had...oh well..
sprite? I have never had any 'street cred' and certainly wouldn't want any, to be honest.
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