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Post by tzarine on Mar 13, 2020 22:02:42 GMT 2
the internet will break in the states when every student from k-12 to every uni starts online classes
it's odd the posh shops (trader, whole foods) were full of angry folks & empty shelves while the working class & small ones were much calmer & still had toilet paper & lots of canned goods
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Post by rikita on Mar 14, 2020 0:17:24 GMT 2
it's all a bit unclear, here, information varies - if there is no other possibility, you can stay home - probably, if your boss agrees, for a few days - for those that don't have other possibilities and work in essential professions, there might be child care (what about those who work in unessential professions but might lose their job? and how is that childcare safer than for example regular small daycare centres?) - my job can be done from home, and i hope a. will let me work (my little brother promised to help, as his school is closed, too), but for parents with toddlers that'd be much more difficult ... and they say kids from age twelve (and some sources name age nine) can stay home alone for a while - but i am sure there are twelve year olds you wouldn't want without supervisions all day, and nine year olds that would feel nervous about spending even an hour alone at home ...
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Post by Netsuke on Mar 14, 2020 2:41:38 GMT 2
Update to my earlier post. I DID go to the supermarket last night to get milk and a few other items and was stunned to see bare shelves where the washing powder should be. I use Omo liquid for top loaders. All gone. How could they be out of stock? Rubber gloves too are down! The aisles are filling up with customers, am surprised to see so many people out shopping at this time.
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Post by tzarine on Mar 14, 2020 4:55:15 GMT 2
we stopped @ chelsea market to pick up sale posh valentine's chocolates then to western, the working class market, where people were fine and there were no canned beans or jiffy cornbread mix(, a real yank comfort food), there was pasta, tuna & other staples
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Post by kuskiwi on Mar 14, 2020 7:07:21 GMT 2
WOW. Jacindas really pulled the plug on this lot now. All passengers coming into NZ - self isolate for 14 days. No cruise ships to dock until end June. Cargo is supposed to come in - more to come on that and recommendations not to travel. New rules for self isolation and no mass gathering and the mosque memorial tomorrow is cancelled.
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Post by slowcoach on Mar 14, 2020 10:12:27 GMT 2
I feel there is a need to start identifying people who have caught COVID-19, recovered, carry its antibodies and are presumably immune, in order to reemploy them in sectors where they will deal with the most vulnerable.
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Post by Baz Faz on Mar 14, 2020 11:28:39 GMT 2
We have had an email conversation with friends who live in Switzerland. They have cancelled their trip to Thailand and Vietnam (I believe that Thailand has fewer cases than Switzerland), cancelled dinner parties and refuse to let their son visit. They were horrified at how cavalierly it was being treated in Britain. No more. All sports events are cancelled. Bizarrely the police will be given powers to detain virus suspects. Where will they detain them?
Perhaps prodded by this concern I am going to the National Trust property tomorrow and then stopping work there. I am prone to get chest infections (one reason for going abroad in winter) so this is a wise precaution. There are very few cases in our area but of course the National Trust property gets visitors from all over.
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Post by wikki on Mar 14, 2020 13:04:05 GMT 2
I am wondering, is the test for the virus so expensive? here in Austria (that is in shut down.) you get only tested when you are sick AND had some contact with the Virus, in other words, only when you were skiing in Italy or a co worker ( or family member) got positive tested. That is, with the info that around 80% people have only mild symptoms.
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Post by Voy on Mar 14, 2020 15:35:56 GMT 2
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Post by Voy on Mar 14, 2020 15:38:11 GMT 2
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Post by slowcoach on Mar 14, 2020 16:12:10 GMT 2
From all Hell Breaks Loose division of the Brown Stuff contacting the Fan department:
All but some essential travel has been banned across Spain.
I have not yet seen the official banning order so I don't know the exact extent.
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Post by OnlyMark on Mar 14, 2020 16:31:16 GMT 2
Our plans were to be in Spain in the middle of April. At the end of March to drive from Germany, through Austria, through Slovenia into Croatia. Looks like we might have to think again.
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Post by rikita on Mar 14, 2020 18:18:04 GMT 2
We have had an email conversation with friends who live in Switzerland. They have cancelled their trip to Thailand and Vietnam (I believe that Thailand has fewer cases than Switzerland), cancelled dinner parties and refuse to let their son visit. They were horrified at how cavalierly it was being treated in Britain. No more. All sports events are cancelled. Bizarrely the police will be given powers to detain virus suspects. Where will they detain them? Perhaps prodded by this concern I am going to the National Trust property tomorrow and then stopping work there. I am prone to get chest infections (one reason for going abroad in winter) so this is a wise precaution. There are very few cases in our area but of course the National Trust property gets visitors from all over. maybe they are worried about developments in quarantine rules, though? i know some people are canceling trips, not because they think they will catch anything, but because they are worried that the country they go to or the one they come from will come up with strict rules about quarantining anyone who comes from abroad ...
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Post by rikita on Mar 14, 2020 18:20:12 GMT 2
I am wondering, is the test for the virus so expensive? here in Austria (that is in shut down.) you get only tested when you are sick AND had some contact with the Virus, in other words, only when you were skiing in Italy or a co worker ( or family member) got positive tested. That is, with the info that around 80% people have only mild symptoms. someone said today that they might not be keen on testing too many people, because the fewer they test, the lower the official numbers, because you don't catch all infections. not sure if that is already going into the direction of conspiracy theories, as of course the more people you test, the better you can stop it spreading, and also, if you catch all those light cases, the death toll goes down percentagewise, so less panic ... could also be, that it is just difficult to keep up with producing enough tests fast enough ...
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Post by wikki on Mar 14, 2020 19:55:15 GMT 2
i think the first part is a bit conspiracy theory I heard also today that they only test so little because the official labs don't have so much capacity.
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Post by auntieannie on Mar 14, 2020 21:40:30 GMT 2
For those who want lengthy explanations, check the youtube channel of Dr John Campbell. He's a retired nurse teacher from the North of England and he's got loads to say on the matter. At the moment, he does a kind of daily journal on COVID-19.
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Post by tzarine on Mar 14, 2020 23:18:53 GMT 2
dear leader has banned us travel to uk & ireland
voy, those are hideous
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Post by lumi on Mar 15, 2020 2:57:11 GMT 2
You'd think with the threat of this virus at the moment, you wouldn't use your fingers to eat fries from someone else, especially when that person is using cutlery to put what they want onto a separate plate (fancy cafe). But that is what happened to me last night with someone I had only just met too. Yuck!
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Post by lumi on Mar 15, 2020 3:00:09 GMT 2
We have had an email conversation with friends who live in Switzerland. They have cancelled their trip to Thailand and Vietnam (I believe that Thailand has fewer cases than Switzerland), cancelled dinner parties and refuse to let their son visit. They were horrified at how cavalierly it was being treated in Britain. No more. All sports events are cancelled. Bizarrely the police will be given powers to detain virus suspects. Where will they detain them? Perhaps prodded by this concern I am going to the National Trust property tomorrow and then stopping work there. I am prone to get chest infections (one reason for going abroad in winter) so this is a wise precaution. There are very few cases in our area but of course the National Trust property gets visitors from all over. maybe they are worried about developments in quarantine rules, though? i know some people are canceling trips, not because they think they will catch anything, but because they are worried that the country they go to or the one they come from will come up with strict rules about quarantining anyone who comes from abroad ... Yes, many here have similar concerns, including me. I'm considering travelling alone to visit sick family but if Singapore close their borders for any reason, I would be separated from my son for far longer than I could cope. So still unsure if I will travel (but reluctant to take my son with me as he can't help but touch every yucky surface and then put fingers in his mouth given his age).
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Post by lumi on Mar 15, 2020 3:06:16 GMT 2
Good question. And similar in my profession (teacher) though the need for us to go into work when students do not makes the decision even sillier. We absolutely need the doctors and nurses to be in their workplace but us teachers will be teaching our students remotely so forcing us to do this from school rather than home where we can try and manage our own children at the same time is cruel. They say that the experience in HK and Vietnam where teachers have been teaching remotely for some time suggests that staff morale is higher when they work from school and keep normal work hours etc. I doubt that is the case for those who have children who can't attend school and are having to be left at home. Maybe they are right as most seem happy to have their unskilled domestic worker take ful charge of their children but that isn't my choice and my morale will not be good should this be forced upon me.
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Post by ruthincanada on Mar 15, 2020 3:43:55 GMT 2
And here I am in NZ for nearly 3 weeks and having a terrific time. I’m supposed to be going to Australia in a bit over a week (for a month) and wondering if I ought to pull the plug and just stay a wee bit longer in NZ. Gahhhhh, have so many wonderful plans for Australia...but if they quarantine visitors for 2 weeks I don’t want to go!
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Post by Netsuke on Mar 15, 2020 4:37:52 GMT 2
And here I am in NZ for nearly 3 weeks and having a terrific time. I’m supposed to be going to Australia in a bit over a week (for a month) and wondering if I ought to pull the plug and just stay a wee bit longer in NZ. Gahhhhh, have so many wonderful plans for Australia...but if they quarantine visitors for 2 weeks I don’t want to go! I was thinking about that too, Ruth. If one is staying in a country for three months, two weeks is a nuisance, but.....if you're stay is like a few weeks, then two weeks is most of your holiday.
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Post by slowcoach on Mar 15, 2020 5:46:45 GMT 2
Our plans were to be in Spain in the middle of April. At the end of March to drive from Germany, through Austria, through Slovenia into Croatia. Looks like we might have to think again.
Hmm,
You are joking with us?
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Post by slowcoach on Mar 15, 2020 6:52:18 GMT 2
Everything here is as clear as mud.
I am not at all sure but it seems that in some/many cases the regions are going their own way and central government is going its.
I think but I am not sure that here all the bars are shut, all shops are shut except for the sale of essentials, food, medicine.
All travel has been stopped except for the journeys home or to obtain essentials, police/guards/military are manning checkpoints.
It is not clear when or if the border with Portugal will close.
It is not clear if people fleeing from Madrid, the Basque Country, Cataluña will be turned back, quarantined, or what.
Will they cancel Easter?
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Post by slowcoach on Mar 15, 2020 8:17:47 GMT 2
I have found the actual decree relating to the state of emergency and it contains restrictions on movement:
What I need to know is whether a dog's need to crap constitutes force majeure ( fuerza mayor ), the dog's say Woof (i.e. Yes).
Otherwise it looks like dog walking is illegal.
Could any Spanish scholars see if we are even permitted to step out of our front door unless we are going for essential supplies etc., my limited Spanish says no we are not permitted.
Here is the pertinent arcticle:
Artículo 7. Limitación de la libertad de circulación de las personas.
1. Durante la vigencia del estado de alarma las personas únicamente podrán circular por las vías de uso público para la realización de las siguientes actividades:
a) Adquisición de alimentos, productos farmacéuticos y de primera necesidad.
b) Asistencia a centros, servicios y establecimientos sanitarios.
character) Desplazamiento al lugar de trabajo para efectuar su prestación laboral, profesional o empresarial.
d) Retorno al lugar de residencia habitual.
e) Asistencia y cuidado a mayores, menores, dependientes, personas con discapacidad o personas especialmente vulnerables.
flower) Desplazamiento a entidades financieras y de seguros.
g) Por causa de fuerza mayor o situación de necesidad.
h) Cualquier otra actividad de análoga naturaleza que habrá de hacerse individualmente, salvo que se acompañe a personas con discapacidad o por otra causa justificada.
2. Igualmente, se permitirá la circulación de vehículos particulares por las vías de uso público para la realización de las actividades referidas en el apartado anterior o para el repostaje en gasolineras o estaciones de servicio.
3. En todo caso, en cualquier desplazamiento deberán respetarse las recomendaciones y obligaciones dictadas por las autoridades sanitarias.
4. El Ministro del Interior podrá acordar el cierre a la circulación de carreteras o tramos de ellas por razones de salud pública, seguridad o fluidez del tráfico o la restricción en ellas del acceso de determinados vehículos por los mismos motivos.
Cuando las medidas a las que se refieren los párrafos anteriores se adopten de oficio se informará previamente a las administraciones autonómicas que ejercen competencias de ejecución de la legislación del Estado en materia de tráfico, circulación de vehículos y seguridad vial.
Las autoridades estatales, autonómicas y locales competentes en materia de tráfico, circulación de vehículos y seguridad vial garantizarán la divulgación entre la población de las medidas que puedan afectar al tráfico rodado.
FWIW our garden is registered as farmland and having sheep are we not farmers and having dogs are they farm dogs and our garden farm is a place of work?
If firewood is an essential good, it is one that is stored in our garden on our farm, I could collect it one twig at a time and take the dogs with me.
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Post by OnlyMark on Mar 15, 2020 10:08:03 GMT 2
Our plans were to be in Spain in the middle of April. At the end of March to drive from Germany, through Austria, through Slovenia into Croatia. Looks like we might have to think again.
Hmm,
You are joking with us?
No, that was the plan.
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Post by OnlyMark on Mar 15, 2020 10:31:44 GMT 2
english.elpais.com/society/2020-03-14/cabinet-debating-banning-all-journeys-in-spain-apart-from-travel-to-work-or-to-buy-food.htmlAccording to the draft decree for the state of alarm, which radio network Cadena SER first reported on and to which EL PAÍS has had access, journeys would be limited to the following: 1. The acquisition of foods, pharmaceuticals and essential items. 2. Access to healthcare centers. 3. Journeys to workplaces or to carry out labor, professional or company duties 4. Return journeys to habitual residences. 5. Assistance for and care of seniors, minors, dependents, the disabled or especially vulnerable people. 6. Journeys to financial institutions. 7. For reasons of force majeure or situations of necessity. 8. Any other activity that is justifiably necessary. To sum up, people in Spain would only be able to move around if they need to go to work, buy foodstuffs or purchase pharmaceuticals. The government would essentially be locking down Spain, in measures that could go into force at 8am on Monday March 16, 2020.
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Post by slowcoach on Mar 15, 2020 10:37:48 GMT 2
Oooops!
Sorry about the plan, I guess I am the board pessimist.
I am somewhere between comparisons with 1918 flu pandemic and the Black Death, and I have been for some while, and I think that the UK government scientists are assisting the UK government to hide the greater truth behind lesser ones.
Hopefully I am very wrong but I am relieved that I did manage, JUST, to persuade my wife that we really needed to bring forward our shopping trip. I opted for panic as a rational strategy about two weeks ago but it is not for me to go around frightening people because I have a gut feeling.
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Post by ruthincanada on Mar 15, 2020 10:44:07 GMT 2
And now Australia has a two week quarantine upon arrival so that’s it. I might stay longer in NZ. Must talk to air NZ
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Post by slowcoach on Mar 15, 2020 10:46:14 GMT 2
in measures that could go into force at 8am on Monday March 16, 2020.
The wording is that it came into force the moment it was published in the BOE and it has been.
El presente real decreto entrará en vigor en el momento de su publicación en el «Boletín Oficial del Estado»
Many thanks for the translation and link.
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