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Post by madhatter on Jun 17, 2015 7:51:39 GMT 2
I think it should be legalized under a controlled framework. Why make a bad thing worse?
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Post by Grecian on Jun 17, 2015 20:25:41 GMT 2
A bit like what's happening in Switzerland and Dignitas?
You haven't really added much to the discussion, Hatter..
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Post by madhatter on Jun 17, 2015 21:30:54 GMT 2
A bit like what's happening in Switzerland and Dignitas? You haven't really added much to the discussion, Hatter.. Don't be an ass hat all your life geeky. |
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Post by Grecian on Jun 17, 2015 21:53:04 GMT 2
I promise I won't be as long as you add to the Thread....ok?
If you would like to peruse the 1st Page on this Thread you will soon realise that we have moved on from your Basic feelings above that you Posted.
Up to you to make it more interesting with your 'actual' Thoughts, Hatter...and not some inane, boring Post that you made above..
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Post by madhatter on Jun 17, 2015 21:58:53 GMT 2
I did add. Your views on page 1 are irrelevant to my own. Ever wonder why most people give you a hard time?
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Post by Grecian on Jun 17, 2015 22:06:47 GMT 2
I think it should be legalized under a controlled framework. Why make a bad thing worse? So you really think that that is 'Added Value' to the Thread?... Grow up and get a Life and Post something of Interest.... I'm bored of you already... |
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Post by madhatter on Jun 17, 2015 22:15:58 GMT 2
Stop looking for a fight.
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Post by Grecian on Jun 17, 2015 22:23:32 GMT 2
I was, actually, looking for some interesting Post about Assisted Suicide, to be honest..Hence my OP..
Looks like I looked at the wrong Poster...
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Post by madhatter on Jun 17, 2015 22:36:27 GMT 2
Womble
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Post by Grecian on Jun 17, 2015 22:41:54 GMT 2
Any one else?
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Post by grumpy on Jun 19, 2015 17:45:45 GMT 2
If someone wants to die, it's fair to have that decision robustly challenged and discussed, but their wishes should be honoured if they stick to them. The wishes of family members or overly involved others aren't relevant unless the person wanting to die decides that they should be. All this provided that the person is:
a) over 18; or
b) has a terminal illness causing them pain.
Under 18 and not terminally ill lacks consent and direct cause.
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Post by where_is_my_mind on Jun 19, 2015 20:04:27 GMT 2
I don't think you should have to be terminally ill... just over 18.
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Post by Grecian on Jun 19, 2015 22:26:06 GMT 2
"b) has a terminal illness causing them pain."
That's the reason for the OP ya Thicko!...Said Bloke wasn't Terminally Ill...
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Post by grumpy on Jun 20, 2015 14:04:58 GMT 2
Sorry, you misunderstood me. I meant either over 18 (any situation) or under 18 and terminally ill.
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Post by madhatter on Jun 20, 2015 20:21:12 GMT 2
Some people wilfully misinterprete things grumpy.
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Post by Grecian on Jun 20, 2015 21:26:42 GMT 2
Oh dear! Is Grumpy a Clique Fwend of yours, Hatter?
Get over it and start Posting on here like a Poster who has something to say and not a snidey knut most of the times...
So, Grumpers, I know it all comes down to a Personal Choice like all things in Life should be, but don't you think that the Bloke was a tad Selfish in my example? I can guarantee that the majority of his Family had just a bit "Just what the feck are you doing??" in their mind during that sad, and sorry, trip they all made to Switzerland?
I know that I would have had a go..
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Post by madhatter on Jun 20, 2015 21:54:26 GMT 2
Geeky.
You wonder why people give you shit? It's because you're obxious and overbearing. How bout you lay off the shtick and people might interact with you.
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Post by Grecian on Jun 20, 2015 22:29:12 GMT 2
'obxious' and 'shtick'...
Well I dare say Iff you weren't so Pi55ed then I may have an inkling of just what the Feck you were on about.....
See, yet again, you don't add to the discussion at all but you have yet another go at me?
I am coming to the conclusion that you are Trailer Trash and your IQ is less than your penis size...which, really does, take some doing...
Just STFU for now and we can start again - afresh - and just discuss things on here; ok?
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Post by grumpy on Jun 21, 2015 1:57:37 GMT 2
Oh dear! Is Grumpy a Clique Fwend of yours, Hatter? Get over it and start Posting on here like a Poster who has something to say and not a snidey knut most of the times... So, Grumpers, I know it all comes down to a Personal Choice like all things in Life should be, but don't you think that the Bloke was a tad Selfish in my example? I can guarantee that the majority of his Family had just a bit "Just what the feck are you doing??" in their mind during that sad, and sorry, trip they all made to Switzerland? I know that I would have had a go.. Perhaps he was selfish to opt out early, but it's his life and his suffering so it's his choice. Perhaps he felt he would have been selfish to require his family to care for him when he was paralysed; again it's his life and his suffering so it's his choice. In my view. I bet his family would have grieved to see him paralysed and suffering too. |
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Post by Grecian on Jun 21, 2015 20:53:56 GMT 2
He would have been paralysed from the neck down but he wouldn't have 'suffered' - apart from Mentally...
I think that we agree on the basic premise that it is the individual's choice at the end of the Day - or Life....BUT!
Personally, i'd just hate to see my Dad just....die...and HE made the choice. You really do only get 1 chance at this Life and you should take that chance for as long as it can be.
Why has Stephen Hawking lived so long and he's 73 now! What about if he threw in the towel in the 1970's when "by the late 1970s he could only be understood by his family and closest friends" or mid-1985 when "Hawking contracted pneumonia, which in his condition was life-threatening; he was so ill that Jane was asked if life support should be terminated. She refused but the consequence was a tracheotomy, which would require round-the-clock nursing care, and remove what remained of his speech" (Both Wiki')
I suppose everyone is different but there are certainly Fighters and Quitters...
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Post by outside cat @wino on Jun 22, 2015 6:00:01 GMT 2
I suppose everyone is different but there are certainly Fighters and Quitters...
I wonder about that at times as well, do we admire someone who fights to the bitter end, or do we admire the person who books in to a motel with a bottle of scotch and a handful of pills. The reoccurring theme is not one case fits all but I am impressed with any country that will debate and legislate to give people options.
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Post by Scrubb on Jun 22, 2015 18:39:12 GMT 2
It has recently become legal here (Canada), but is still theoretical. They legislated physician assisted suicide, but have no guidelines or rules yet.
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Post by Grecian on Jun 22, 2015 21:25:44 GMT 2
"Fighters and Quitters" was posted to cause a response, Wino..
Everyone is different and it's their choice.
the 'Scotch an' Pills' scenario is for Mental Breakdowns and not physical disabilities so start an OP on that...
It's a Minefield, Scrubb as what about family members who are gagging for the inheritance money?
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Post by Hedonista on Jun 24, 2015 0:30:24 GMT 2
I will share a very recent and true story that effected me personally.
My Dad, who died just 3 weeks ago, had been suffering from emphyzema for the last few years, cause by exposure to asbestos when he was younger. He got pneumonia and although he partially recovered from the initial bout and went home from hospital for a couple of weeks he relapsed and went back in hospital, losing the fight eventually. He made me promise to do whatever I could to make sure he did not go on life support and that if he did get out of hospital again, that I would help him get to Dignitas in Switzerland. By this time one lung had totally collapsed and he was breathing on around a quarter of the other lung. He did not want to live like that and I understood. In the end, was fighting so hard to breath that for over 24 hours he was panting like he was running a marathon, he was a fit man with a healthy heart but in the end his heart gave out.
But if he had have got out of hospital, I was ready to help him get to Switzerland rather than see him suffer. He certainly could never have been called a quitter.
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Post by madhatter on Jun 24, 2015 11:11:50 GMT 2
I've also spent time with family members dying of cancer in one case weeks on end and I can fully appreciate why someone would want to go out on their own terms with some dignity rather than eek out the last breathes with ever decreasing quality of life.
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leela
Pot Smoker
Posts: 148
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Post by leela on Jun 26, 2015 1:19:37 GMT 2
I think that being paralysed from the neck down would be unbearable. Total helplessness. Not being able to so much as hold a book, feed oneself. Being able to speak and think is hardly a consolation when you can't even control what channel the TV's on,or hold a phone to talk to your friends.
If the guy knew that it wasn't a life he was prepared to live, then he had the right to kill himself (as any person does). But he knew that once he was paralysed he 1) wouldn't be able to do it for himself, and 2) wouldn't be fit to travel to Switzerland to have someone do it for him.
It was his chioce to die. He could have thrown himself under a train instead of going to Switzerland, but chose not to put his family (or a train driver) through that. His choice meant that he could go peacefully and the family could say goodbye, instead of having the police turn up at their door with awful news, or finding him dead in bed from a surfeit of pills.
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Post by happytraveller on Jun 27, 2015 20:01:50 GMT 2
If i would want to live or die if i was terminally ill and/or in massive pain i will only know when/if i get there. But everybody should have the choice. It is none of my business do decide over other peoples death wishes. So i am pro choice.
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Post by Grecian on Jul 1, 2015 22:57:02 GMT 2
A very sad story, Hedon'. I would have wished for Dignitas as well and said a heartfelt farewell where everyone involved was 'happy' with the final outcome.
You show a different side to your normal self there, Hatter, and I appreciate your Post.
Leela?... Stephen Hawking?...And like I mentioned above - Is it not de valuing Disabled people with those disabilities who choose to Live as it really is One Chance at it? (I'm so glad that Religeon hasn't come into this Thread so far like "They are going to a higher place..."..)
It really is down to personal choice in the Biggest Decision you will ever make..
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leela
Pot Smoker
Posts: 148
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Post by leela on Jul 6, 2015 23:56:15 GMT 2
And that's the thing. Not everyone is Stephen Hawking. Some of us are lesser beings. Some of us don't have the mental or financial support that others have - or the practical or emotional support that others have. Some of us deal with certain types of disability better than others.
I don't think any one person's decision devalues any other person with a disability. Someone healthy saying that someone disabled should commit suicide, is what devalues those with disabilities.
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Post by Grecian on Jul 7, 2015 21:52:50 GMT 2
Your last sentence there was a bit Heavy - Almost Nazi like circa 1943!
Did Stephen Hawking have 'Mental or Physical support' though? (I'll find out tomorrow as I am watching The Theory of Everything..) I doubt it..
Everyone's different as allude to, Leela...But maybe some should think harder when they make that Final Choice as to what their Decision means to the the Loved ones that Stay....
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