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Post by happytraveller on Feb 10, 2013 11:58:35 GMT 2
LOL !!
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Post by slowcoach on Feb 11, 2013 0:31:28 GMT 2
Thanks happy,
And
Yes Mark,
it does interest me, parallel but quite distinct projects.
Lots to read.
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Post by outside cat @wino on Feb 11, 2013 0:33:22 GMT 2
Interesting read, I thought of crime scene photo's when you first bought it! The bath looks fantastic!
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Post by slowcoach on Feb 12, 2013 5:08:12 GMT 2
Mark, Just jotting down a few random thoughts while I remember, so I have them to get back to when you finish your current trip. Mi compañera is also a Dr in the same way as yours. To avoid confusion when introducing her I add that she is a proper doctor not a medical person. Also she was already a doctor before we married so she will never be Dr slowcoach as that is not what is written in the records. This does lead to confusion. The only two classifications for rural land, of which I know, are parcela and recinto. Our huerta is a parcela comprising two recintos (one is tiny). Both categories are recorded locally and nationally. It is relatively easy to find out the boundaries of both and basic information about the grade of land, it is public information it is available on maps. Finding out who owns what does I think require a formal application but it should all be registered. ***** Edit ***** I have a suspicion that at least some recinto may exist for tax reasons. We think we register land so we know who owns what, the government thinks it is so they know how much to tax. In our case the tiny recinto is a rocky outcrop of no commercial (and I suppose ratable) value. *** End Edit *** I get the impression that there are off-register deals and agreements and they are a pain. We gave up on one property because the seller (acting for the owner) was trying to sell less land than the registered parcel. If there is a rumbling dispute talk to a lawyer or your friendly local officials to ascertain just how much shit the claimant could cause, he may not have to have much of a claim to be a PITA, just good timing. You don't want to be denounced or similar just when you have contractors and plant on site ready to break ground. That sounds a bit negative, it shouldn't be a big deal but he is likely to be way better connected than you, and may be prepared to chance his arm to see if you will part with money if you are snookered. There is also a chance that he thinks that he has bought or acquired the land legally.
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Post by slowcoach on Feb 12, 2013 6:22:40 GMT 2
More jottings:
Roof pitch regulations.
This is a royal PITA, our little casa is in a region that traditionally has the sort of ultra low pitched roofs that yours had. It is hard to find an example of a medium pitch roof that is not a recent addition.
We claimed and quite rightly that we were undertaking restoration work and only wished to replace the roof as is. The roof had to be raised to meet other regulations which were their problem not ours. This fell on deaf ears until the build actually started.
The village lost its council somewhile back when it no longer had enough residents to justify a mayor, the ayuntamiento it was transfered to has regualations specific to towns historical status. You have to have a traditional loose double layer of semicircular pottery tiles in the town. If you have anything other than a ultra-low roof pitch they fall off !!! When the planning department came to visit the works and realised that it was a restoration they didn't say we had to have a high pitched roof and in fact we could apply for a grant that compensates for the cost of restoring rather than rebuilding. Getting the grant is highly unlikely but it was a nice gesture.
This was after we had had several rather nasty arguments with an architect who was adamant that we were wrong and would not agree to arrange a meeting with the town's planning official, similarly the official was not going to take us seriously without an architect. The obvious thing to do was to change the architect, by this time we were talking about architect number 3 and a big investment in time and effort. The first two had been dismissed for extraordinary incompetence, such as not knowing which was the southern facade and that the pillars that support stone vaulting are structural. Architect number three was eventually sacked for attempting to stop the build on its first day due to having screwed the paperwork up. The builders were stunned, we took on complete liability for the works so that they could continue, the builders were very grateful. The builders were wonderful, we had approval to carry out the work as we orginally intended, lower ceilings, low picthed roofs, and some other details, they had no plans that reflected these changes but we sorted things out between ourselves and a structural architect type of thingy who could approve the work in progress.
It was actually a lot more complicated than that, architect number three tried to get the work stopped yet again via an appeal to the local college of architects claiming breach of contract. We retaliated claiming that the architect had falsified paperwork to support that claim, including a signed document claiming I had attended a meeting when I was not even in Spain. The college chose to believe us, there is a first for everything.
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Post by slowcoach on Feb 12, 2013 11:09:43 GMT 2
One more jot and I'll be done for now.
I have read all through and am impressed.
External wooden doors and windows are a problem everyone knows that, and tells you that.
So we decided to replace the existing four window frames with aluminium, add three more for the existing tiny upper floor windows that were never glazed, and three more frame for the completely new upper floor windows.
The problem with the wood is that it warps.
Then the carpintero arrived ...
He said he would renovate the existing frames and fit proper mosquiteros.
Err: but wood is no good si?
Wood is fine, you just can't get it anymore.
********** Drawing a line under that episode ************
So the ground floor, which was only part that was for living in, has kept its traditional frames, getting interior doors that didn't look out of place was not easy, no one seems to make anything suitable and in the end we designed them and the carpenter is making them.
************************************************
Our only really new architectural feature is the loggia, and that caused a huge amount of confusion. They don't seem to understand the concept, they save sun terraces and they have rooms, but a loggia is neither. Oddly there is a convent nearby that has several but that doesn't count. So when the plans came back each bay of the loggia had turned into a window. Very large, very expensive window.
One thing that never failed to surprise me throughout our project was the ability of architects to have a complete disinterest in all things architectural. Loggia are more typical of Italy than Spain but man with cleft stick does visit Spain bringing news of Italy. We even managed to find one architect that didn't like arches! And particularly had it in for the roman arch, which is a pity in a region with some of the best of the remaining ones.
********************************************
You mentioned bars (as in drinking not windows). In our region at least, a bar of some sorts in a village is considered to be a public amenity. I am not quite sure of the regulations but I think that if you have enough residents who have retired they should have somewhere nice to while away their days, and if necessary the premises and upkeep (including the electricity, heating but not the beverages) is funded by the ayuntamiento (it might be the junta). The small disused school house became a bar run by and for the community. How very very civilised.
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Post by sprite on Feb 12, 2013 15:13:39 GMT 2
i haven't read throughall, but i love your area of spain. andalucia is wonderful, and i think the idea of a book is good too.
i met a british couple who had come over and bought what turned out to be a former brothel. it was some time before they realised exactly why so many people kept dropping in to say hi. then they found out that although their application for water and electric hook-up had been successful, to save money the village waiting until 10 homes were ready--they were home 4, and at the end of the list. they'd been home 4 for a few months when i met them, with no home 5 appearing. i've no idea what happened to them, they seemed quite lost and trapped.
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Post by OnlyMark on Feb 12, 2013 16:06:27 GMT 2
Just a quick mention I've spotted these comments and I'll have to get back to both of you when I return home. Thanks.
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Post by OnlyMark on Feb 20, 2013 15:22:39 GMT 2
If there is a rumbling dispute talk to a lawyer or your friendly local officials to ascertain just how much shit the claimant could cause, he may not have to have much of a claim to be a PITA, just good timing. You don't want to be denounced or similar just when you have contractors and plant on site ready to break ground. That sounds a bit negative, it shouldn't be a big deal but he is likely to be way better connected than you, and may be prepared to chance his arm to see if you will part with money if you are snookered. There is also a chance that he thinks that he has bought or acquired the land legally.
We are very aware that they man who claims part of the land has ‘connections’ within the village and are inclined to play things fairly carefully. Fortunately the part he claims plays a minor role in our renovation scheme but when the day of judgement comes, and even though he believes he has bought it legally, unless he can produce the proper paperwork, he’s on a bit of a sticky wicket. We are inclined to compromise to a certain extent for the sake of harmony. Official drawings of the land area have been lodged with the authorities, the land we own, but even though an extensive search was made with all the different local authorities (village/town/county), there is no trace of his ‘land’. Even though he is connected, so are we, and we are with the major local builder of the county who undertakes all the local authority building work and has the planning department and registration offices in his pocket. He even came with us when we did the searches to find this other land and brought with him the recently retired head of the town planning department for extra weight.
You have to have a traditional loose double layer of semicircular pottery tiles in the town. If you have anything other than a ultra-low roof pitch they fall off !!!
We debated quite what would be best for the roof tiles, especially with the higher pitched roof and as you do, came to a compromise with what was available in the area.
This was after we had had several rather nasty arguments with an architect ...............
Sometimes I wonder why they seem to be cutting their nose off to spite their face. It’s as though it is their house sometimes that we are just paying for, not our house.
....the architect had falsified paperwork to support that claim, including a signed document claiming I had attended a meeting when I was not even in Spain.
Well spotted, if you did spot it, as I think I mentioned we had problems with a lawyer who had falsified a signature. It turned out to our advantage in the end.
.....getting interior doors that didn't look out of place was not easy, no one seems to make anything suitable and in the end we designed them and the carpenter is making them.
Same problem but we’ve settled for ready made ones because we couldn’t justify spending the money on others, though we wanted to. One next step we have to do is find a good carpenter for the built in cupboards. The one the builder uses tried to pull a fast one on us and needless to say, we won’t be using him.
One thing that never failed to surprise me throughout our project was the ability of architects to have a complete disinterest in all things architectural. We even managed to find one architect that didn't like arches!
As above, times are when people who are being paid for seem to forget who is paying their bill and even though I respect their ‘expertise’ at times, I also expect that unless they can come up with a very good (i.e. structural, procedural or legal) reason why my way can’t be done – then they must understand I’m not doing all this for their benefit, other than the benefit of having work – which in these troubled Spanish times often people seem to think life is as it was before – meaning there is plenty of work and they can pick and choose clients and jobs.
Sprite - .......i've no idea what happened to them, they seemed quite lost and trapped.
I did mention somewhere in the story about Gary(?), the English man who’d ended up trying to get a building permit and failed. He’d poured all his money into a renovation over a few years and ended up not being able to get water and electric and a permission to build. So he’s packed everything up, abandoned his site and gone home to lick his wounds.
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Post by slowcoach on Feb 20, 2013 16:27:54 GMT 2
Yes, the bespoke doors are expensive but we are only talking about 7 in total so it is bearable.
The contract issue was more complicated than is worth explaining but we were aware, and in part we engineered a favourable outcome, we were honest but less than straightforward.
Well I think that's it for now, thanks and good luck.
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Post by OnlyMark on May 5, 2013 17:34:03 GMT 2
Update - no update really - other to mention I've spent nearly a week painting and can't seem to see an end to it. I now need to re-paint a couple of rooms I painted two years ago that have had heavy use and are showing signs of wear and tear. Plus all the little details like architrave, pictures, smelly toilet etc etc. I've set on the builders as well to start on the outside now that they have nothing to do inside. They'll clear an area to start on the pool and an outhouse rebuild for the batteries, control boxes, water tank, washing machine and stuff plus a terrace to the side for watching the sunset whilst guests drink copious amounts of alcohol.
That will be started in a few days but the whole works will last a year probably until we have enough money to finish it off. After that there is the front wall and courtyard - then it'll be more or less complete. The problem for me will be this summer I may well have no electrics whilst they do the rebuild. Maybe even no water either. I'll know more at the end of June when I return.
Anyway............... it bloody snowed last week. That pissed me off no end.
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Post by slowcoach on May 7, 2013 16:39:34 GMT 2
Cold is the new Hot it seems at least for springtime.
'Tis good to hear some news.
Did you get your poppies, or did they drown?
I guess your house was weather-tight, right?
Any new to you rivers, lakes, swamps, paddy fields?
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Post by OnlyMark on May 7, 2013 19:01:47 GMT 2
The poppies and some heather coloured flowers were in full bloom all over, very attractive. It does seem though that thistles can grow to about three metres tall, especially on my rough ground at the side. They were the most impressive thing.
We have a track of about 150m from the tarmac that leads up to and past the house. This is on a slope that gets plenty of run-off from the fields and thus tends to have channels cut in it every winter. I try and keep it maintained enough to be able to drive up but eventually it'll be asphalted after we've had all the major building works done outside, the trucks would tear up a good road surface in no time and we'd only have to do it again. So we make do with it for now and the builder doesn't mind, we just have to have a bit of a run up at it when it is really wet/muddy.
The house survived ok with just a bit of damp showing in the upstairs room underneath the shifted tiles. That'll dry up fine now and I'll get my long pole and brush out later in the summer to do the ceiling again, no problem and the tiles refitted. There does seem to be a bit of damp creeping up a back wall inside the entrance 'hall' and I need to look at that better before it goes too far. I'm not sure what to do with that yet, I might have to drill some holes in it and inject it with waterproofer.
The area does show signs of heavy rain with numerous new channels cut through certain fields, some small landslides across the roads and even one industrial unit collapse where a new stream has undercut the foundations. On my land there is nothing of note apart from, for some reason, one of the large pine trees on my hill has died. It is/was probably fifteen metres tall or even more. I'll need to look at that in the summer as well. I have a chain saw and I'll have to cut it down methinks.
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Post by OnlyMark on Jun 25, 2013 16:26:58 GMT 2
So, latest update - Arrived and found the builders had made a temporary connection to the water and electric for us to stay in the house without missing out on it. They've disconnected them to begin to reform the outside. The first steps were to knock down an outbuilding that had housed the solar batteries and the hot water tank. This is being rebuilt to get more room inside. Also there is a piece of ground that used to be enclosed with walls and forms part of our house footprint even though nothing was ever built on it. This is to become the swimming pool. If you walk from the back door around to the left side of the house you now see the top of the new outbuilding and the shuttering for the pool - Walking on top of the 'shed' gives a better view of the work they've done to put up the shuttering for the concrete - A view of the pool - It will be 9m by 4m with an extra 1m at the side for steps and a place to sit inside the water. As you walk down the side of the house you get an idea of how much above ground the pool will be and an idea of the slope we've had to build on - Walking past it and cutting along the track in the front of the house – From inside the front yard and the partially built shed - I don't normally use the date thing on the camera but I needed to when I picked up the hire care from the airport to have some proof of the damage already done to it. But that's a different story. I forgot to switch it off. Anyway, the concrete was poured today, it'll take some time to dry enough to take the shuttering off and then I'll see how it is from then on.
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Post by truenic on Jun 25, 2013 18:29:36 GMT 2
This is so fascinating Mark. The mister and I dream of buying a place somewhere in France, Spain or Central America and re-doing it. Much props to you and the missus for taking on such a huge project.
I am also jealous of your Sketch-up skills. I've downloaded the trial version and am not very adept so far.
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Post by OnlyMark on Jun 25, 2013 19:20:44 GMT 2
It took me quite a while to get to grips with it but I persisted out of necessity. Necessity because of wanting to communicate to a builder in a different country with a different language but also because Mrs M, bless her, had a great number of ideas but few drawing skills, so it was up to me to follow her instructions and then say, "Something like this?"
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Post by Baz Faz on Jun 25, 2013 19:37:36 GMT 2
Exciting times. Are you sleeping in the house? Does it have wonderful vibes at night?
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Post by slowcoach on Jun 25, 2013 19:49:57 GMT 2
... Mrs M, bless her, had a great number of ideas but few drawing skills, ... ... Mrs M, bless her, had a great number of great ideas but few drawing skills, ... "Thought Policing for Safer Future"
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Post by OnlyMark on Jun 25, 2013 22:21:16 GMT 2
I'll go by what I first thought slowcoach and bugger the consequences.
Baz, yes we are sleeping in the house but due to spending a good couple of months here we are periodically slipping away to a hotel for a night or two around Andalucia. When I woke up Sunday morning I knew the workers weren't coming and I realised I actually prefer it when they turn up at 7am and I can while away a couple of the first hours sitting watching them. The place has a good feel but it does seem to be a house that requires a number of people there to bring it to life. One thing I do enjoy is the amount of bird life around.
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Post by gnd on Jun 26, 2013 12:59:27 GMT 2
haha at slowcoach, who is clearly correct, I might add!,)
and yes, I think the sanity of these extensive house renovation projects hinge on being able to enjoy the surroundings. With it being summer now and nearly all daylight for 23 hours a day, and the kids waking up eitherwise at usually 6am unless super tired then sleep til maybe 7am, it´s nice to get up at 4-5am sometimes to just enjoy the views.
The sunlight coming in from the sea, dapples a moving image on the walls and slowly moves across, like the reflection of a pool on a wall. Going out on the deck, the soft early light, smell of the sea, seagulls, forest, mountains....blah blah blah...reminds you why you moved there in the first place:). And when everyone is up and running around, that all your kids enjoy it too, is great:)
--- Great all the reno photos you´ve taken, to see all the progress, remind yourself how far you´ve come when you forget what it first looked like. I really like the bright yellow in the kitchen!
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Post by slowcoach on Jun 26, 2013 14:24:04 GMT 2
If the worst come to the worst, I'll send flowers.
By the Bye,
as you will have a nice big pool of water, will you be considering its potential for fire-fighting?
Spanish houses by and large might not burn well, too little wood, carpets, etc., but the contents may do. Also you might have some issues with nearby trees.
Where we are, it is not at all clear as to where any fire engines or tenders would come from, and how long they would take to get there.
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Post by OnlyMark on Jun 28, 2013 16:25:16 GMT 2
gnd, the kitchen is still bright yellow but due to a 'discussion' between how big a cooking area I wanted and how big dining area my very persuasive wife wanted, the cooking area is now 60cm smaller. In effect I've had to re-arrange, put in and take out different sized units over the last day to accomplish this. It is still U shaped but the sides of the U are now closer together making the distance less between the sink and the cooker. It works fine enough for me and she get to have a bigger dining table.
Not thought about the fire fighting thing slowcoach. It is an idea though as we are surrounded by trees of one sort or another. Perhaps an investment in a pump and a long hose pipe would be in order. The local fire brigade would have to come from not the village but the town about 15 mins away by truck. At least I think so.
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Post by slowcoach on Jun 28, 2013 17:56:36 GMT 2
An independent or self-contained pump may be a good idea but access so a suction hose can be dropped in it could also be considered. I am fairly certain that your standard urban fire engine has really good pump but a disappointingly small water tank. Expecting to connect up to the mains if there is a serious fire, they can only run the pump at full bore for less than a minute otherwise. I am sure that they would welcome a nice big pool of water and I would have thought that in a rural area they would be suitably equiped. But you know what thought did ... I have lived where the only decent supply of water was the pond, a small lake might be a better description. On the omninous side, the "Second Great Fire of London" coincided with a low ebb tide.
Regarding the slope: do you think that a "difficult" site makes the planning easier or harder? I think constraints can make some decisions more or less for you, and they concentrate the mind on the art of the possible. Are you getting any feel for the state of your local economy? Things are still holding up fairly well for ours, as far as I can tell. The banks are 'rupt but it doesn't seem to matter much.
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Post by OnlyMark on Jun 28, 2013 21:26:19 GMT 2
The slope causes problems mainly with the levels, as you'd expect but the advantage is as you say, only some things are practical. It's nice that the level of the pool will be at the floor level of the first floor so that the view from it is restricted less by the surrounding olive trees.
One thing that has come to light though is that because 'we' (the Royal we) want an infinity pool we want the view when you are floating in the water (or on one of those blow up armchairs with a cocktail in the armrest) to be better than staring at a tree trunk across the track. The height brings this out - but also we've discovered the place we want to pool pump etc has to be bigger than we thought because an extra 'deposito' is needed when you have a pool of this type to take up thee excess water when a number of you are in the pool, and so it can be pumped back again when you get out. This has cut down on the front yard (posh name of Courtyard) space.
This morning, no matter how many drawings I produce for the builder from afar (Jordan) it still needs us and the main worker to pace it all out, put a load of bricks down to designate the walls and see it on the spot. This then brings up things like do you want a door to open inwards or outwards, left side hinge or right side, how many ventilation bricks do you want for the battery house/shed etc etc - and we haven't yet got to the details of what pool tiles, door handles and so on - the details I'm sure you're familiar with. Also having to correct assumptions made by the builder like having no handrail on a set of outside steps, whereas we'll want one if not now for us (we'll need it for kids/friends now) then it needs to be there as we get older - and there'll be a step down from a side patio to the pool, he assumed just one step, I want two smaller ones (kids, older friends etc).
Anyway, the shuttering is down from the pool, the battery house/shed is being walled in, I've had a load of furniture delivered and I've come away to the coast for the weekend. We'll get a few desks, this one for which room I've no idea, came as well as a bookcase, some dining room chairs and two of the following mirrors for the kitchen to add a bit of light and something a bit unusual -
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Post by OnlyMark on Jun 28, 2013 21:28:49 GMT 2
Desk Attachments:
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Post by OnlyMark on Jun 28, 2013 21:29:50 GMT 2
Mirrors Attachments:
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Post by slowcoach on Jun 29, 2013 4:53:14 GMT 2
While I remember, it is predicted that temperatures will climb to, and north of, 40ºC by the end of next week in much of Andalucia and Extremadura.
I must confess that this phase of your construction has taken me a bit by surprise. I think elsewhere I commented on it becoming a complex, or perhaps just plain complex, but your diagrams didn't bring out the full effect.
The use of the available height afforded by siting the pool on such a slope is a neat trick. Would I have seen it? Perhaps if I saw the logic of the some restrictions directed things that way. I had to look up "infinity pool" I am not exactly with it, pool wise. Does the infinite edge face over olive groves?
I think your builders may just be responding to their knowledge that you know what you want and that it matters. Some of the recent building work in our village has not been all that clever but the owners either don't seem to care or they shrug it off with or without privately whinging a bit first but not actually complaining. It seems pretty fatalistic to me but they are that way inclined. On the other hand they are, or at least think they are, getting it all done on the cheap, using cheap builders, and getting cheap results is perhaps part of that bargain.
I am a bit puzzled by the mirror but I suppose that is part of the point.
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Post by OnlyMark on Jun 29, 2013 9:53:39 GMT 2
We are short of windows in the kitchen due to how the house is built, there are a restricted amount of places we can put them. That room also suffers being at the back of the house, nestled towards the hill so cutting down on the amount of sunlight able to get to it. The mirrors are designed to look like windows and hopefully not only reflect what light is available inside but give the room the impression of having more windows than it has. More after breakfast.
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Post by happytraveller on Jun 29, 2013 10:00:16 GMT 2
I love those window-mirrors !
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Post by OnlyMark on Jun 29, 2013 11:07:56 GMT 2
Maybe because I see it all the time and am familiar with it that I don't see it as a complex or complex. It is basically a house with a pool, however there are parts of it extra and the fact that it is on a slope adds a dimension lacking in a normal village house. There is the battery shed where the hot water tank and washing machine will be, the pool shed with equipment and an overflow water tank, a rear patio, a side patio, a dirty patio for....... errrr....... dirty stuff like hanging washing and to the front will be a courtyard. There are two bedrooms downstairs on the first level, an entrance hall, TV room, kitchen, lounge and master bedroom on the first floor, three bedrooms and a study cum bedroom on the second floor. Thinking about it, it's not quite simple. With a normal pool there is usually a lip, the water is quite a few centimetres below the level of the pool side. So if you are in the water you end up looking higher to clear the 'lip'. With an infinity pool the view is horizontal, which is what we want. We can then better see across the valley - the only photo I can quickly find is from a little higher up from my bedroom, but it gives the idea - Also the sun sets that way - So we do want to make the best of the view there. Forgot to mention before about the economy. It is as in your area. Things seem to carry on as normal but it is obvious there is a major downturn in employment with a number of failed businesses and plenty of empty new build houses dotted around. There is a house in our village that is now half the price of what it was advertised for four years ago, and it still hasn't sold.
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