|
Post by Grecian on Oct 27, 2013 21:33:32 GMT 2
Apparently the word 'Paki' is fine in Australia...
Over here you would get a slap and a beating...Quite rightly so..
|
|
eti
Happy Potters
Posts: 295
|
Post by eti on Oct 28, 2013 11:44:55 GMT 2
The whole discussion is completely over the top.
I am positive the character is not racist. I actually find it offensive to shout 'racism!' as soon as a colored character pops up. If we make a new movie, which features a black character who is a bit stupid, or silly, people will shout 'racism!' so that in the end all black characters anywhere HAVE to be extremely bright and well-mannered.
It is that kind of stupid political correctness that was parodied 20 years ago already in South Park, where the only black person is obviously a token black person, hence his name is Token Black...
The thing is, Zwarte Piet looks nothing like a Surinamese or Antillian. I have never seen those people wearing Zwarte Piet's clothes or showing Zwarte Piet's behaviour. Apart from that, Zwarte Piet is the bright, positive counterpart to the strict, distinguished Sinterklaas, so he is definitely a postive character.
The only mistake would be the fact that their facepaint is brown nowadays. If I'm not mistaken, they were black (I mean, really black) when I was little. If they are truly black, they look even less like an actual colored person.
I know this is hard to understand to, say, Americans. They grew up with these Blackface characters who were there to mock and ridicule black people. Zwarte Piet is not a blackface. He is not there to mock black people. Actually, we had Zwarte Piet before we had black people in Holland.
What makes the whole discussion especially sour is the fact that we do have tremendous problems with racism in Holland. Or rather, with discriminations, because half of the ethnic minorities are technically white.
They have a hard time integrating into our society. Try to apply for a job with an Arabic sounding surname - good luck. Now that's a problem. As a result, a disproportional part (of course still a minority) of migrant youths end up in crime, which again fuels racist feelings towards the whole group, which further diminishes their chances. Etcetera.
And racism has reached politics. First with the wannabe politician, who was killed before he could be elected, and now with the Freedom Party, which is all for freedom - just not for everyone. They have had government influence. Pointing fingers at entire minorities and fighting symptoms has become common throughout all parties due to the racist Freedom Party's influence. This year they were spotted wearing national-socialist flags in parliament. All sorts of slurs that were completely not done a few years ago are absolutely commonplace now.
Now those are serious problems.
So please, let us dress up as nice characters (who happen to be black) in November and December and help us fight the real racism that is tearing apart our country!
|
|
|
Post by Grecian on Oct 28, 2013 22:01:52 GMT 2
eff!
Are you a Darkie, Cotton picker, Missie eti??
Where's Uncle Tom when you need the fecker??
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2013 0:58:05 GMT 2
As a black chick, I have no idea what any of this is about. All I know is, I am sick of white people. I am sick of black people. I am generally just fucking sick of humanity. I reckon our Alien over lords should come do away with this planet of insanity. Enough of everyone really.
|
|
|
Post by gnd on Oct 29, 2013 11:18:29 GMT 2
The whole discussion is completely over the top. I am positive the character is not racist. I actually find it offensive to shout 'racism!' as soon as a colored character pops up. If we make a new movie, which features a black character who is a bit stupid, or silly, people will shout 'racism!' so that in the end all black characters anywhere HAVE to be extremely bright and well-mannered. It is that kind of stupid political correctness that was parodied 20 years ago already in South Park, where the only black person is obviously a token black person, hence his name is Token Black... The thing is, Zwarte Piet looks nothing like a Surinamese or Antillian. I have never seen those people wearing Zwarte Piet's clothes or showing Zwarte Piet's behaviour. Apart from that, Zwarte Piet is the bright, positive counterpart to the strict, distinguished Sinterklaas, so he is definitely a postive character. The only mistake would be the fact that their facepaint is brown nowadays. If I'm not mistaken, they were black (I mean, really black) when I was little. If they are truly black, they look even less like an actual colored person. I know this is hard to understand to, say, Americans. They grew up with these Blackface characters who were there to mock and ridicule black people. Zwarte Piet is not a blackface. He is not there to mock black people. Actually, we had Zwarte Piet before we had black people in Holland. What makes the whole discussion especially sour is the fact that we do have tremendous problems with racism in Holland. Or rather, with discriminations, because half of the ethnic minorities are technically white. They have a hard time integrating into our society. Try to apply for a job with an Arabic sounding surname - good luck. Now that's a problem. As a result, a disproportional part (of course still a minority) of migrant youths end up in crime, which again fuels racist feelings towards the whole group, which further diminishes their chances. Etcetera. And racism has reached politics. First with the wannabe politician, who was killed before he could be elected, and now with the Freedom Party, which is all for freedom - just not for everyone. They have had government influence. Pointing fingers at entire minorities and fighting symptoms has become common throughout all parties due to the racist Freedom Party's influence. This year they were spotted wearing national-socialist flags in parliament. All sorts of slurs that were completely not done a few years ago are absolutely commonplace now. Now those are serious problems. So please, let us dress up as nice characters (who happen to be black) in November and December and help us fight the real racism that is tearing apart our country! Eti, I didn´t shout "racism!" as soon as a "colored" character pops up. I´d never heard of it, seen it til this post. I think the discussion is just that a discussion, of differences of opinion, about a topic many of us have never heard of or seen til this post. I might be American, but I´ve lived all around the world, and have learned that usually when someone fights hard to prove something is not racist, it usually is to someone else. Point taken, though, they probably do have a hard time integrating into society....after that I wasn´t sure who the "they" was in your comment, the whites or "coloreds". But it probably doesn´t help that whites parade around in faces painted "brown" with huge red mouth, white circled black eyes with huge afro wigs, and think this is a positive character for the whites to have of the "coloreds". I´m merely saying what this looks like from an outsiders point of view. And I don´t take it personally, as a white or as an American, that anyone might agree I only have this point of view as I´m American, rather than say white Dutch. Are blacks considered Dutch, or just they, or coloreds. Most of my Dutch friends just call "them" Dutch, or immigrants if they´ve newly immigrated. No, I don´t see how only whites dressing up as nice black characters help either side. I grew up having black mammy dolls, and black dolls very similar to Black Pete´s face, and they were my most beloved dolls....I still have two, handmade cloth dolls a (black) American woman had made me, which I´ve kept for my daughters. I don´t know if that is racist, maybe it is. But I choose to keep the beloved cloth dolls. Just as you choose to have your opinion. Doesn´t make either of us right, just shows our opinion on something. Probably plenty of people, regardless of color, will disagree with us both...
|
|
|
Post by ninchursanga on Oct 29, 2013 13:58:14 GMT 2
The thing is, Zwarte Piet looks nothing like a Surinamese or Antillian. I have never seen those people wearing Zwarte Piet's clothes or showing Zwarte Piet's behaviour. Apart from that, Zwarte Piet is the bright, positive counterpart to the strict, distinguished Sinterklaas, so he is definitely a postive character. The only mistake would be the fact that their facepaint is brown nowadays. If I'm not mistaken, they were black (I mean, really black) when I was little. If they are truly black, they look even less like an actual colored person. I know this is hard to understand to, say, Americans. They grew up with these Blackface characters who were there to mock and ridicule black people. Zwarte Piet is not a blackface. He is not there to mock black people. Actually, we had Zwarte Piet before we had black people in Holland. That's just bollocks. Of course Surinamers or Antillians wouldn't wear Zwarte Piet clothing or display such behaviour. If the white majority already makes fun of you, there's no reason to reinforce it. Zwarte Piet was in Holland before even black people were, that's true but he emerged during colonialism. And it is a black face character because he looks like the caricature of a black person: the Afro hair, the golden earrings and the red, red lips. Come on!! That is exactly how black people were depicted during colonial times. While "racism" may be a too big of a word, Black Pete is inappropriate and it's time to change. There is a big majority of white Dutch who have no fucking clue and cling on to the tradition cause they grew up with it and have warm, fuzzy feelings for Black Pete. Sorry, but it's time for us to recognize the inherent racism that comes with such 'minor' traditions. You can't just say let's do something about unemployment among minorities and then go on to keep such abhorrent traditions like Black Pete. And for christ sake, I really don't think little kids care that much about how Black Pete looks like. It's just the adults clinging on to it. As long as there is a fun person handing out candy the kids will be fine.
|
|
|
Post by OnlyMark on Oct 29, 2013 16:10:18 GMT 2
Rascism - the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/racismJust point out to me how/why Zwarte Piet fits that strict definition. Maybe a naive question, but I'm curious. Secondly another question - do races 'possess characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to that race'? If you say that east African races are excellent middle and long distance runners, thus superior to white races? Is that being racist? "White men can't jump" - is this a racist statement? Or not because it is against whites, but if I say black men can't swim............? Would a better definition of racism be that you treat a race differently, and usually prejudicially, to others because of their race?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2013 16:25:53 GMT 2
But black men CAN swim. The ones I know anyway.
My ex (a white man) thinks all black men have big dicks. He was terribly insecure about it and thought I'd leave him for a black guy. Except, my white ex's dick was waaaaay big than my black ex's dick.
What's my point?? don't have one. People are dumb fucks. Racism imo is about an intention to hurt or be malicious to someone because of their race. Intent is a BIG deal to me about all this bru-ha-ha. Some people do and say dumb shit but isn't meant to be racist. Some people do kind shit that wreaks of racist under tone. Go figure.
I reckon g-d should do away this this lot and start over. We are too far gone and fucked up for this crap to be sorted out. I have no hope in humanity.
|
|
|
Post by sophie on Oct 29, 2013 17:31:02 GMT 2
Nexus, I agree with most of what you say.. But I still have hope..the younguns' are doing it better than my generation did..
|
|
|
Post by Grecian on Oct 29, 2013 21:06:56 GMT 2
Nexus?
Did you do the voice over for the Black Maid in the Tom and Jerry cartoons??
Bottom line - and hopefully the last time I Post on this strange Thread - is...
Racism is all about Intent and Context!
Thank you; Exit Stage Left.....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2013 23:50:27 GMT 2
No Tinman. LOL.
I've had white guys hit on me with lines along "I've never slept with a black chick/woman before'.
urgh. I never knew how to respond to that. I never did nor do I find it flattering. I am not some fucking chocolate sample. I don't want to be anyone's fetish. Now, some could say it was racist. I found it terribly insensitive, offensive even..but not racist.
I am older and sort of wiser...now I respond with, ' you want to eff me, but would you marry me?'
hahahaha. fuckers.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 29, 2013 23:53:59 GMT 2
PS, I find it's easier to just hate everyone equally. I wont lie...some cultures get on my tits in a BAD way...and I find some racist thoughts would slip in..I had to remind myself to treat individual assholes as individual assholes...and for the sake of a clean conscience and my sanity...I simply do not or where possible, minimize my interactions/exposure to certain cultures I find disagreeable. I suppose that could be classified as racist.
***shrugs shoulders...I don't have the answer for any of this other than to accept that people are dicks***
|
|
|
Post by Grecian on Oct 30, 2013 21:03:38 GMT 2
You sound like my kinda Gal!
Tinman Unchained!...Not really the same ring to it?
I agree with you; there are very few people that I like...
|
|
|
Post by gnd on Oct 31, 2013 3:19:14 GMT 2
...and sometimes "small" things (human conflict in general) gets in the way of so much amazing, awesome (space, underwater geography and wildlife, all the other living things on the planet, and off---hopefully) things which, I wonder, if we humans could actually focus on, what it´d be like to live here.
* sneaking a bit of halloween fudge *
loosing train of thought. Tinny did I spælt that right:). loozing?
|
|
|
Post by lumi on Oct 31, 2013 12:56:51 GMT 2
I was a a Spoken Word event last night where anyone is allowed to get up and perform whatever it is they wish. There are only a couple of rules and one of those is that you should be mindful not to be racist. I found it interesting that the MC then went on to define racism as being negative against minority groups. I don't believe that racism is something only specific to minority groups but rather can be against anyone depending what is said/done. But I do feel that more often than not people only recognise racism when it is against a minority group and would find the same behaviour acceptable if it were against a non-minority group.
|
|
|
Post by Grecian on Oct 31, 2013 21:39:20 GMT 2
Totally agree but I don't see you point there, Lumi?
I'd like to see your MC explain that shite in Brixton, London?...
Gingers are over 50% in Scotland..We still take the pi55 outta them!
|
|
|
Post by outside cat @wino on Nov 4, 2013 23:29:37 GMT 2
My world is simple, I dislike everybody in it...I am the uber racist!
|
|
|
Post by Grecian on Nov 6, 2013 20:17:14 GMT 2
..good job you aren't a Stand Up Comedian......
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2013 21:40:25 GMT 2
..good job you aren't a Stand Up Comedian...... LOL
|
|