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Ubeda
Aug 10, 2022 7:46:16 GMT 2
Post by OnlyMark on Aug 10, 2022 7:46:16 GMT 2
I thought it’d be nice to see a town worthy of a visit on those long summer late afternoons/evenings when the fierce heat has gone out of the day. Plenty of shade to walk around in and then later have a good meal. Ubeda - towns like Ubeda are away from the usual tourist sites and not part of the famous “white village” routes of Andalusia. It’s about an hour away from me and this and its sister town, Baeza, I nip to every year. A Unesco Heritage town with a number of Renaissance palaces and churches. Patronised by Castilian aristocratic families Úbeda became a Renaissance focus in Spain and from there Renaissance architecture spread to Seville and America. “The city possesses 48 monuments, and more than another hundred of buildings of interest, almost all of them of Renaissance style.” en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9AbedaOriginally fortified by the Moors in the 9th Century (several gates, towers and lengths of wall still exist) after the Christian re-conquest in 1233, renovations were made and later the architecture took on its Renaissance appearance. I don’t have specifics of every building as my daughter and I have been there a few times and just wanted a night in the town to stretch our legs. So this is more of an overview and familiarisation of some of the buildings around. Whilst we were having the house renovated, somewhere around 2010 and the kids were smaller, we had a wander round and called into an old palace that is now a posh hotel. One girl, a little fed up with having to have a wash under a hose pipe, asked, “Why can’t we live here?”
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Ubeda
Aug 10, 2022 7:47:47 GMT 2
Post by OnlyMark on Aug 10, 2022 7:47:47 GMT 2
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Post by OnlyMark on Aug 10, 2022 7:48:46 GMT 2
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Ubeda
Aug 10, 2022 10:47:42 GMT 2
Post by Baz Faz on Aug 10, 2022 10:47:42 GMT 2
I am struck by the lack of human activity. Few people are about (sheltering indoors because of the heat maybe), but also not as much greenery as I would expect and no photos (yet) of cafés or shops.
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Ubeda
Aug 10, 2022 11:50:11 GMT 2
Post by OnlyMark on Aug 10, 2022 11:50:11 GMT 2
Baz, I was there towards the end of the siesta time and it was deserted. Later on some started to appear as in the last couple of photos. This is the old town (centre) and there is very little greenery at all, just bits here and there. There are parks and stuff outside the walled centre but I was taking shots of the buildings more than anything. I'm afraid that as we've been here a number of times and the object of the visit was just to have a walk round and spend the night in an air conditioned hotel, there are no more photos. If you look closely you can see maybe three cafes and one shop, but virtually all were closed anyway at this time.
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Ubeda
Aug 10, 2022 13:07:34 GMT 2
Post by shrjeff on Aug 10, 2022 13:07:34 GMT 2
the top arch is greek - a semicircle which met the greek ideas of perfection but has no real strength... the lower arch is a variation on the gothic arch which is much stronger and was used to support cathedrals...
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Ubeda
Aug 10, 2022 13:39:50 GMT 2
Post by Voy on Aug 10, 2022 13:39:50 GMT 2
I love the church with the giant pots on either side..(19 & 20) And , so THAT'S where they got the idea for the Ku Klux Klan !
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Ubeda
Aug 10, 2022 15:18:32 GMT 2
Post by OnlyMark on Aug 10, 2022 15:18:32 GMT 2
Jeff, I may have to disagree with you on something. But I'm far from an expert. The top arch may well be Greek in shape but the Christians who rebuilt the fortifications and the King after the reconquest were all Catholic but they may well have stolen the style. The bottom arch was more than likely built if not in the ninth Century when the town was fortified, then in the following years even up until the expulsion of the Arabs in 1233. So it could be possible there is an overlap with Gothic architecture but Arabic arches not only date from many centuries before Gothic ever came about, even before Christ's time, but also this one doesn't look pointed enough to be Gothic. It's what I think of as a keyhole arch. Unless, you mean that Gothic arches developed from Moorish/Arabic arches though Gothic are never(?) of the keyhole type.
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Post by OnlyMark on Aug 10, 2022 15:26:11 GMT 2
Voy, about the first time I ever came to Spain was at Easter time. I was aghast to see all these klu klux klan people parading around - until I found out.
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Ubeda
Aug 10, 2022 16:49:44 GMT 2
Post by slowcoach on Aug 10, 2022 16:49:44 GMT 2
The town is in very good shape. I can see that one structure is a facade but everything else looks fine.
My view, FWIW, is that arches in practice are more tricky than simple explanations would have one believe. E.G. the line of thrust that has to lie within the structure is normally an abstraction. Without chiselling away at the wedges it is impossible to know where it is or even if it can otherwise be said that force (pressure) can be so confined. There is an aesthetic appeal to an arch, and round, elliptical, gothic, etc., are almost never the ideal structural shape, and in the case of the gothic arch, that final meeting at an angle would be difficult to justify in terms of structural principles. Robert Hooke's equivalence "As hangs the flexible line, so but inverted will stand the rigid arch." Is a good guide, particularly in Spain, Barcelona, the Church of Colònia Güell, which was thus modelled: But few would mimic Gaudí. Most might prefer pillars that are vertical and arches that are not each individually bespoke, and projects that get finished!
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Ubeda
Aug 10, 2022 17:52:13 GMT 2
Post by OnlyMark on Aug 10, 2022 17:52:13 GMT 2
I remember the first photo, saw that in 2016. Don't forget corbelled arches though. One of the oldest types? Certainly the pyramids I've been in seem to like them.
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Ubeda
Aug 10, 2022 18:51:17 GMT 2
Post by slowcoach on Aug 10, 2022 18:51:17 GMT 2
Corbelling can be baffling, for me at least.
Our home in England was typically Victorian with many fireplaces. One had clearly been removed and presumably a support put under the extant chimney above.
I would mention my concerns from time to time but the idea that the chimney breast in the room above was staying put of its own accord seemed very unlikely.
It turned out that corbelling from its attachment to the wall behind was sufficient to support the structure and until the bottom courses became unbonded and failed after more than 20 unsupported years leaving the rest of the chimney above corbelled out from the wall.
Unfortunately having a RSJ installed wasn't cheap, which I guess was why it was left like that in the first place.
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Ubeda
Aug 12, 2022 3:16:17 GMT 2
Post by tzarine on Aug 12, 2022 3:16:17 GMT 2
yes, those hooded men are very disconcerting for a yank
the city has a post neutron look in its emptiness
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Post by slowcoach on Aug 12, 2022 14:20:57 GMT 2
... the city has a post neutron look in its emptiness ROFLOL
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Ubeda
Aug 12, 2022 14:33:34 GMT 2
Post by slowcoach on Aug 12, 2022 14:33:34 GMT 2
Back to corbelling:
Arches are ancient, neolithic, I don't know which is the oldest type.
For me, the additional complication of a corbelled structure is that the blocks are not just subject to an aggregate force more or less perpendicular to their surface but to and additional rotational moment and a subsequent tension in some part of the block. I find this makes considering the overall structure more challenging.
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