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Post by slowcoach on Sept 13, 2014 16:38:39 GMT 2
Scotland must decide whether to become an independent country or not. Whatever they do decide I wish them well.
I think it unfortunate that the campaigns are couched in political points rather than constitutional arguments.
Hence a lot of what is being stated seems to be partial and not altogether honest.
For instance, denying Scotland membership of a Sterling currency union is a political decision, such a union could be negotiated but at the cost of incomplete sovereignty. The Governor of the Bank of England did not state that such a union was impossible that it was incompatible with sovereignty, for any such agreement would come with strings attached.
I, like most, do not have the time to track down and endorse or refute all the various claims that are being made for an against but I do think that independence will come at a cost as do most things worth having. That cost seems likely to increase with the degree of sovereignty achieved.
The brave decision is to go it alone, and that may well be the best decision in the long run. In the short/medium term I foresee a rough road ahead.
What worries me is that the arguments seem couched in terms of extremes, as opposed to a goal worth sacrificing for.
Any thoughts? What would want to know if you were in their shoes? |
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Post by Baz Faz on Sept 13, 2014 19:59:03 GMT 2
According to the polls the vote could go either way. A close result seems likely. So if, for example, 51% vote Yes that still leaves 49% voting No. Add in the people who didn't vote and that hardly seems a strong case for independence.
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Post by Baz Faz on Sept 14, 2014 9:59:45 GMT 2
One plus if Scotland were to leave the UK is that England could no longer have a Scottish Prime Minister (think: Gordon Brown).
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Post by auntieannie on Sept 14, 2014 11:46:37 GMT 2
isn't the current useless one a scot or of scot descent?
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Post by pizzawheel on Sept 14, 2014 13:16:52 GMT 2
Cameron is a scottish name.
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Post by auntieannie on Sept 14, 2014 14:12:55 GMT 2
if they separate, can they take him with them? Or can I go with them and leave Cameron behind?
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Post by pizzawheel on Sept 14, 2014 14:21:46 GMT 2
I think what's been lost in the yes/no debate is no one really wants to politicians.
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Post by slowcoach on Sept 14, 2014 15:08:50 GMT 2
Nobody knows what Independence will mean. That said it seems very unlikely that Scottish Citizens will not be extended full civil rights in the rest of the UK. Meaning that they will be able to stand for Parliament and in theory become Prime Minister. The same courtesy is extended to all Commonwealth Citizens resident in the UK.
By the bye, it would be interesting to see how many would choose to remain as UK citizens with a UK passport, or is it really likely that the UK would choose to strip them of their UK citizenship.
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Post by pizzawheel on Sept 14, 2014 15:21:01 GMT 2
I think the passport issue is overblown. Reality is they're all EU passports these days so for travel, equal. I wonder what the visa fee for foreign countries would be though... Brits always seem to pay the most.
Also, and as an idiot economist, I'm not sure why the independence guys haven't responded to the sterling sabre rattling by threatening to join the euro.
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Post by slowcoach on Sept 14, 2014 15:25:05 GMT 2
On another note, without the 59 Scottish MPs, I think the UK parliament would have a Conservative majority.
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Post by slowcoach on Sept 14, 2014 15:31:05 GMT 2
Also, and as an idiot economist, I'm not sure why the independence guys haven't responded to the sterling sabre rattling by threatening to join the euro. It is not clear that they can. At least not straight away. They would have to apply and meet the criteria. A lot of things are not clear. It seems likely they will have to apply for EU membership at some stage. It is not clear what terms they will be offered. It is a bit of a Pig in a Poke as far as I can tell. |
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Post by pizzawheel on Sept 14, 2014 16:16:49 GMT 2
I'd suspect that with Scotland's closer ties to europe- and England constantly being in some sort of dispute- the EU would pass an emergency resolution in about fifteen seconds to bring Scotland in.
The political thing might be for the good- Scotland having had a tory government for so many years with like one tory mp elected there is one of the major rankles. There will definitely be a seismic shift in both countries.
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vinnyd
Happy Potters
Posts: 335
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Post by vinnyd on Sept 14, 2014 18:09:20 GMT 2
Blair is a Scottish name too. And to the extent the Royal Family is any kind of British, it's Scottish.
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Post by Baz Faz on Sept 14, 2014 18:25:18 GMT 2
I'd suspect that with Scotland's closer ties to europe- and England constantly being in some sort of dispute- the EU would pass an emergency resolution in about fifteen seconds to bring Scotland in. Don't be too sure. Spain doesn't want to encourage the Catalans to go for independence and might well block the Scots to show the Catalans they can't take it for granted. And as for taking 15 seconds to pass a resolution, what a sense of humour you have. |
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Post by pizzawheel on Sept 14, 2014 18:53:58 GMT 2
Blair is a Scottish name too. And to the extent the Royal Family is any kind of British, it's Scottish. Erm... the windsors (nee the kaisers) are German, and Phil the Greek, is, well, greek. Baz: good point on Spain, but I still think any "screw the english" vote gets passed unchallenged with one vote against. |
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Post by auntieannie on Sept 14, 2014 23:59:28 GMT 2
And the BBC cocked up again. Their behaviour is totally counter-productive.
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Post by Tilly Star on Sept 15, 2014 23:37:26 GMT 2
If I was Scottish I wouldn't be considering a yes vote there was a lot more clarity about the mechanics of it all. What would happen to all the National Insurance contributions I'd made over the years towards my pension, how much of the National debt would be given over to Scotland, will I still get to watch The Great British Bake-off?
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Post by tzarine on Sept 15, 2014 23:49:15 GMT 2
watching catalan w interest
they might charge you to watch the bake off, tilly
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Post by tiltedflipcurves on Sept 16, 2014 2:39:40 GMT 2
Has it not been made abundantly clear by the Eurozone experience since 2008 that a currency union without political and budgetary union is a damn stupid idea? IF Greece had its own currency, it would have devalued it long ago and gotten its debt under control without ruinous austerity.
Yes, I'm channeling Paul Krugman here.
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Post by pizzawheel on Sept 16, 2014 4:50:38 GMT 2
Yes but Scotland and the UK might be close enough for it to work- the Scots are way more socialist but have the natural resources to cover.
I have a gut feeling there's a yes on the way, for the sole reason the yes campaign seems to be more believable.
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Post by Netsuke on Sept 16, 2014 5:01:46 GMT 2
When reading about Scotland and independence, this always comes to mind -
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Post by auntieannie on Sept 18, 2014 22:41:19 GMT 2
The polling stations are either already closed or are about to close. results tomorrow morning.
Thing is the yes campaign has been working on this referendum for 2-3 years and the no campaign really started about 2 weeks ago with Westminster showing so much horrible bullying behaviour and as a London journo put it "behaving like the guy who's been too busy gaming until his girlfriend is at the door and suddenly he becomes angry stalkerish and threatening. In such situations, you don't call the registry office, you call the police" or words to that effect. is the government at Westminster so arrogant and hapless that they let it be said that they don't have a contingency plan in place in case the answer is yes?
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Post by Tilly Star on Sept 18, 2014 23:23:52 GMT 2
"Arrogant and hapless" is probably the best that could be said that shower.
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Post by itsasmallworld1 on Sept 18, 2014 23:36:21 GMT 2
When reading about Scotland and independence, this always comes to mind - |
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Post by welle on Sept 19, 2014 0:36:50 GMT 2
Please also check my post on the LOL thread on the subject matter  |
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Post by Netsuke on Sept 19, 2014 2:59:35 GMT 2
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Post by welle on Sept 19, 2014 6:11:24 GMT 2
Oh! #1 please.
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Post by auntieannie on Sept 19, 2014 18:03:45 GMT 2
now I've drooled all over my laptop!
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Post by pizzawheel on Sept 19, 2014 18:27:08 GMT 2
Did you recognize the tartan? Lol |
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Post by Voy on Sept 19, 2014 19:48:20 GMT 2
why is #4 wearing a slip?  ? |
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