|
|
Post by tiltedflipcurves on Oct 15, 2015 19:50:10 GMT 2
(Thread title with apologies to BazFaz).
As mentioned on an earlier thread, we're considering a three-week Summer 2016 trip to Turkey & Greece for our USAin family of 4, teen kids. I've started doing a bit more planning, and see a good Atlantic-crossing airfare that we may want to jump on soon, so I'm now trying to plan in earnest. But I'm starting to think I have way too many flight legs and could use a reality check.
The Atlantic crossing would be via Ukraine Air, which would get us from NYC to Istanbul, via reasonable plane changes in Kiev, round trip <$800. (The return plane change would be an overnight layover of 20 hours, which I think would be fine as we'd get to see Kiev and it looks like no visa's needed.) So we'd have the following, over the course of about 23 days. (There are lots of options on sequencing and how long to spend on various segments, but so far it seems like each of these would have to happen at some point).
Drive 4 hours from home to NYC area, visit family
Fly NYC-Kiev-Istanbul (overnight flight with plane change)
Day or so in Istanbul to recover from flight & jetlag
Fly to Izmir (departs from different Istanbul airport than prior day's arrival)
Drive to various historic/natural sights in Southwestern Turkey
Fly Izmir-Athens-Milos. We'd pass through Athens twice; each time we'd have the option, and would use that option at least once, to turn this into a long, overnight layover of about 20 hours, to see Acropolis+
Several days on Milos. It doesn't have to be Milos but I like the look of that island, and the hassles of getting to any island by flight or ferry seem about comparable, and seem worth incurring as opposed to a more crowded or distant peninsula-beach option.
Fly Milos-Athens-Istanbul (see above re Athens layover)
Several days in Istanbul
Fly Istanbul-Kiev-NYC (see above re Kiev layover)
Visit family/sleep/retrieve car, drive 4 hours home
All of the above flights seem to be currently available for a total of about $1100 US/passenger ("pax").
My questions at this point are (1) am I nuts? (2) in Turkey and Greece, how much of a hassle is it to take a short-hop flight like the ones I'm listing? If flight delays, airport security, getting to/from airport, and other hassles are such that we lose most of a day each time we fly, I probably need to rethink. (E.g., substitute Kabak Valley or Datca peninsula Turkey for Milos. Also, Ukraine Air does have the option to fly open jaw by returning to Kiev directly from Athens, but that only saves one leg and costs almost $200/pax more.) (3) Am I missing some obvious way to simplify this route? E.g., any hope of finding an affordable air or boat charter from Izmir to Milos or other Greek island?
|
|
|
|
Post by Baz Faz on Oct 15, 2015 20:47:14 GMT 2
I'll kick off with the depressing news that the Greek government is going to up the entrance fee to the Acropolis to 52€ person. Multiply that by all the folks with you. (Alternatively climb Phillappos hill and look at the Parthenon through binoculars)
|
|
|
|
Post by tiltedflipcurves on Oct 15, 2015 23:01:48 GMT 2
Ugh. For that price, the least they could do is repaint the place.
|
|
|
|
Post by Voy on Oct 16, 2015 0:13:01 GMT 2
one thing I'd suggest is taking the bus from Istanbul to Izmir.. interesting - and not a bad way to spend a day after jetlag. The luxe lines aren't that expensive - and have really nice rest stops.
and look into a boat from there to a Greek Island.. they used to exist ( haven't been in about 6 years )
|
|
|
|
Post by Baz Faz on Oct 16, 2015 9:53:04 GMT 2
I know there's a boat from Marmaris to Rhodes cos some people on our recent visit to Turkey were catching it.
|
|
|
|
Post by Baz Faz on Oct 16, 2015 10:50:42 GMT 2
|
|
|
|
Post by tiltedflipcurves on Oct 16, 2015 17:48:10 GMT 2
Thanks. Yes, I read your trip report and that's one of the things attracting me towards the Kalkan/Patara/Fethiye area. As I work out the logistics and do more reasearch, though, I'm starting to think it makes more sense to get our beach time at an Aegean island connected to Turkey by ferry (as Voy suggested), and am leaning toward Ikaria. Current tentative itinerary (but mind you, I'm still working on assuring Ms. TFC that last week's violence in Ankara shouldn't be a showstopper) is:
Fly NYC-Athens via short layover in Kiev
2 nights Athens
Fly to Ikaria, stay 4-7 days
Ferry to Turkey (Izmir vicinity) via one of several ferry-connection options, timetables TBD
Rent car, drive SW Turkey (inland and coastal) -- Ephesus, Pamakkule, Bergama, perhaps as far as Kalkan/Patara/Fethiye but not lingering there
Get to Istanbul, by driving or by dropping car and flying (Damalan, Milas-Bodrum, Izmir, Antalya, Isparta all possibles). Road trip duration is the expansion joint to fit the trip into the available time, but about a week.
Istanbul appx 5 days
Fly to Kiev, overnight layover
Fly Kiev-NYC
|
|
|
|
Post by Baz Faz on Oct 16, 2015 19:12:10 GMT 2
Point out to Ms TFC that nowhere is safe in the world. Paris, Madrid, Tunisia, Bangkok, Egypt, shootings all over the USA...
|
|
|
|
Post by tiltedflipcurves on Oct 19, 2015 20:28:23 GMT 2
I'm working on that. Here's my current plan. To start mid-July 2016. Suggestions for reworking or filling in would be gratefully considered. Map of road trip portion is goo.gl/maps/DHof6kva7fD2 which estimates only 9.25 hours driving total. I considered the suggestions to drive to Istanbul but I think that means either too much driving (certainly feasible, but less enjoyable) or cutting Sagalassos, and I'm seeing fare quotes of $30-60 for AYT-SAW or AYT-IST. Day 1 Overnight flight New York to Kiev then Athens, arrive evening 2 Athens 3 Fly to Chios, check into vacation rental in Pyrgi 4 Chios 5 Chios 6 Chios 7 Chios 8 Ferry to Chesme, Turkey. Clear customs, taxi to hotel in Alacati 9 Rent car, drive 1.5 hours to Sirence or Selcuk 10 Ephesus/Selcuk/Sirence 11 Drive via Aphrodiasis to Heiropolis/Pamukkale (2.5 hours) 12 Heiropolis/Pamukkale 13 Drive to Sagalassos, visit Sagalassos 14 Sagalassos or nearby hike 15 Drive 1.5 hours to Antalya, drop car at Antalya airport, fly 1 hour to Istanbul 16 Istanbul [May add a night at Antalya to see historic sites in that area] 17 Istanbul 18 Istanbul 19 Istanbul 20 Istanbul 21 Istanbul 22 Istanbul [this day may have to get cut, to fly back earlier] 23 Fly via Kiev to NYC In particular I could use some guidance on where in Istanbul to focus a search for an airbnb lodging. Galata Tower area within Beyoğlu looks best from my reading. If I can use New Orleans as an analogy, I'm not sure I want to stay in the French Quarter (Sultanhemet), but Marigny or Magazine Street would be great, and I take it that Galata Tower fits that analogy. |
|
|
|
Post by auntieannie on Oct 19, 2015 21:03:36 GMT 2
would love to help, please send fare UK-istanbul and I'll check the city for you ;-)
|
|
|
|
Post by lumi on Oct 25, 2015 16:09:18 GMT 2
I'll write my thoughts as they come to me and apologise in advance if my writing isn't 'flowery' and seems all over the place. There's alot I want to type and I am sick so feeling a bit sleepy!
First, I'd go for spending as much time in Turkey as you can (though using free stopovers to explore new places is definitely recommended). Turkey is absolutely stunning and a great experience. Don't underestimate how tired you will be after driving - Turkish roads (with the exception of proper highways) can be not so well maintained and you need to be on the lookout for other drivers doing crazy thigs you wouldn't expect - that is normal! You will also be there in summer and it will be hot, especially considering that all of the tourist things like ruins will be in full sun. I'd definitely recommend driving - the countryside is so beautiful and you can stop in small towns for meals or refreshments and get a real feel for the place (assuming you are happy to eat local food and order things in Turkish with the help of your guidebook maybe for translation).
Outside of tourist areas, Turkish people tend no to speak English but are extremely friendly. I've always found Turkish people to be uber-helpful, even when they've never seen you before. In tourist places, however, the usual pickpockets exist so take all the usual precautions. Taxi drivers (in the cities at least) often try to scam tourist with dodgy meters or refusing to use the meter. Find out how much the fare should be before you head off and if it doesn't seem right, tell the driver what you will pay and that you'll call the tourist police if they don't accept it. I'd actually recommend walking or taking the trams, funikular or metro in Istanbul - that's the easiest and cheapest way to get around and you avoid the terrible traffic jams.
I'd definitely recommend staying in Galata when in Istanbul. It's very central, near all of the public transport, and there are lots of great places to eat and drink Turkish food and beer with staff who speak some English. It is close to Taksim which is a hotspot for protests but they typically don't spill into the Galata area. If you do see a protest, don't panic. Just avoid the area and head somewhere you feel safe. Protests in Istanbul are very common (at least one a week when I lived there) but they usually end peacefully. Don't be alarmed when you see police buses, water canons and loads of police in riot gear standing ready. That is typical and doesn't mean the protest has reached 'danger point'. It may well be different now (zibi will be able to tell you that) as it has been 1 year now since I lived there). If it makes you feel safer, make sure every family member carries a cell phone in case you are separated.
Pamukale is stunning and I'd definitely suggest visiting there. Just keep in mind that it is heavily tourist-ed which makes it less nice so try to go early in the day if you can.
There is also a jewelry store in Galata/Istanbul that I would highly recommend if you want anything made in Turkey. Really reasonable prices and the sales guy speaks good English and isn't pushy. If I were there again I'd buy so much!! Let me know if you're interested and I'll tell you where it is.
You'll definitely love Turkey!! I really miss it and wish I were able to go back for a visit.
|
|
|
|
Post by lumi on Oct 25, 2015 16:24:30 GMT 2
Ohh I know what I forgot to add. Allow plenty of time to get to the airport in Istanbul - traffic can be REALLY bad depending on the time of day. And depending on which airport you're going to and which continent your hotel is on, it could be a very long drive! Galata to Ataturk airport is about 50TL (at least a year go it was) and that' probably the easiest and cheapest way to get there with a family of 4. But if you have alot of luggage, you may not fit the luggage and 4 passengers in a taxi as they don't have alot of boot (or trunk to you USAians) space. You can ask the hotel to hire you private transport. Depending which company they use and how much of a cut they take, it wouldn't be too much more.
Flight departing Turkey are typically depart late. So travelling can take much longer than you expect. The immigration queue is also often very long so plan for that! You can now buy your visa online for Turkey (they may well not even sell them at the airport anyway) so definitely have that organised well in advance.
|
|
|
|
Post by missalaska on Oct 25, 2015 19:39:12 GMT 2
I would make some time for the Kappadokia (sp) area.
|
|
|
|
Post by Voy on Oct 25, 2015 21:53:30 GMT 2
what Missa says ^ I can especially see "kids" having a ball there.. first laughing at the 'penises' - and then going thru one of the underground cities.. to say nothing of the overall beauty of the area!
|
|
|
|
Post by lumi on Oct 25, 2015 22:07:01 GMT 2
I never made it to Cappadocia but really, really wanted to. With the current itinerary that tilted listed though, I don't think they can fit it in as it's nowhere near anywhere they will be.
|
|
|
|
Post by tiltedflipcurves on Oct 27, 2015 22:06:28 GMT 2
Actually, a led balloon might be a more appropriate topic of discussion than balooning over Cappodocia...as of now Ms. TFC says she never agreed to travel in Turkey beyond Istanbul and day trips based there, and is nixing the plan above. (Grrr... I love her dearly but she can get irrationally over-protective when she sees a risk to the kids. Not that I fathom what risk she's seeing, but there are State Dept. advisories for the Syrian border area and that's enough for her.) If I can't persuade her, the alternative (which, frankly, is growing on me for other reasons) is week+ Istanbul-fly to Athens, few days' short road trip via Delphi and Corinth to Kardamily on the Mani peninsula of the Peloponnese, stay there 1 week, return to Athens for a few days, fly home.
|
|
|
|
Post by lumi on Oct 27, 2015 23:23:44 GMT 2
Ohh no, TFC! You should tell her that there is far more chance of getting caught up in political trouble in Istanbul than there is in the other places you have on the plan for visiting. I would say that Ankara is the most likely followed by Istanbul. Turkey is a rather large country and you won't be anywhere near the Syrian border. Turkish people really are very kind (if I may generalise) and if you did find yourself needing any kind of help, I am confident that a stranger would step up without even needing to be asked. I have live and traveled in so many different countries and the one thing that stood out to me was the genuine kindness of many Turks.
|
|
|
|
Post by Baz Faz on Oct 28, 2015 0:21:33 GMT 2
I don't think you were planning to go anywhere near the Syrian border. We were in Patara this time last month and it was as peaceful as you could want.
|
|
|
|
Post by kuskiwi on Oct 28, 2015 19:44:17 GMT 2
Agree with the others but if she isn't happy with the decision the holiday and the lead up time will be a disaster.
If you decide to go to Greece and want to stay on a lovely Island - do some research on Agistri. It's more to the North and has missed the issue with refugees as it's more isolated yet only a short ferry ride from Athens.
|
|
|
|
Post by missalaska on Oct 30, 2015 17:06:43 GMT 2
Not sure of the geography in terms of your Greece jaunt but Meteora is stunning
|
|
|
|
Post by Baz Faz on Oct 30, 2015 18:11:18 GMT 2
I lived for 6 months o the Greek island of Skopelos. It was great (then - who knows now).
|
|
|
|
Post by ninchursanga on Oct 30, 2015 22:53:23 GMT 2
Aphrodiasis is wonderfull. It's a bit too out of the way for many tourists, so the site doesn't get as crowded as for instance Ephesus.
No worries about the Syrian border, but better think about that in July it's going to be boiling hot there.
|
|
|
|
Post by auntieannie on Oct 30, 2015 23:19:33 GMT 2
July in Greece is really seriously hot like nin says. Your best best is on a sailing boat. make sure you charter one with captain.
|
|
|
|
Post by tiltedflipcurves on Nov 14, 2015 16:53:11 GMT 2
All sorted and psyched.
No sailboat or island but staying near the sea (and with A/C) throughout. In Greece, mostly in what looks like an amazing place and value on the Mani Peninsula (an architect's vacation home, built for themselves which is always a good sign, and buried into a hilltop in a largely abandoned ridgetop village overlooking the Laconian gulf). In Istanbul, staying one week in Galata. Surrounding those longer stays, 2-3 nights each in Athens, Nafplio, and Kardamili. Thanks to all for your inputs.
Feels a little weird and sad to be booking a trip to Europe right after last night's horrible attacks in Paris, but that had been our planned timing, and for most of Europe's hundreds of millions, life goes on.
|
|
|
|
Post by tiltedflipcurves on Mar 21, 2016 1:41:41 GMT 2
Snakebit. S--t. Not going to Istanbul except to land and take off. Thanks PKK, ruining it for everyone.
|
|
|
|
Post by shrjeff on Mar 21, 2016 12:52:28 GMT 2
Snakebit. S--t. Not going to Istanbul except to land and take off. Thanks PKK, ruining it for everyone. t'was isis, not the kurds, this time... still some others out there too... |
|
|
|
Post by tiltedflipcurves on Mar 21, 2016 14:03:15 GMT 2
You're right. F them too.
|
|
|
|
Post by tiltedflipcurves on Mar 25, 2016 4:41:02 GMT 2
Score for the excommunication of Cerularius in 1054? Thanks to Turkish Airlines honoring a right to cancellation upon their announcement of a scheduling change, the fact that they moved the flight times by 20 minutes has enabled a no-cost, no-hassle cancellation of all flights, and I'm able to rebook the trip with another airline substituting Rome for Constantinople (as it was), then on to Greece from there.
F___ ISIS all the same, least of all on my account. May that Brussels pissing boy shower them for all eternity.
|
|
|
|
Post by auntieannie on Mar 25, 2016 12:39:00 GMT 2
oh, Rome is such a gorgeous gorgeous city! I'm jealous!
|
|
|
|
Post by lumi on Mar 25, 2016 19:18:36 GMT 2
I'm glad you got to change your flights and now feel more comfortable with the trip. To be fair though, such horrendous attacks can and do happen in all countries these days  |
|
