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Post by auntieannie on Sept 2, 2015 23:16:48 GMT 2
To many, it is very comforting to think that there is something 'afterwards'. Probably because it takes a lot of courage and fortitude to imagine there is nothing.
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Post by ninchursanga on Sept 5, 2015 11:42:54 GMT 2
Mark summed it up. The only reason why I find death scary is that I feel that I haven't lived life to the fullest yet. So many things to do, so many places to go, people to meet...
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Post by auntieannie on Sept 5, 2015 21:00:34 GMT 2
what intrigues me is where does this fit in the 'nothing is ever created, nothing is ever destroyed, everything is transformed' theory.
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Post by OnlyMark on Sept 5, 2015 21:55:25 GMT 2
Where does what fit in Annie?
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Post by Ria on Sept 6, 2015 2:24:25 GMT 2
I think it's a lot more scary to not live my life to the fullest because of a delusion that there will be more 'after'.
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Post by auntieannie on Sept 6, 2015 10:52:52 GMT 2
I know that the 'nothing is created...' theory is about the physical side of things. But what if it applies to the untangible? i.e. our souls and what happens to them after our physical bodies have gone back to stardust?
Oh and Ria, just making sure you understand I don't believe in anything that's been pictured of what happens after this life ends. purgatory is this life. heaven is what people imagine to soothe their anxiety of what happens afterwards. I cannot explain in words what I imagine for afterwards.
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Post by Tilly Star on Sept 6, 2015 14:05:17 GMT 2
I'm not sure that humans naturally need to find solace in an afterlife. If most religions hadn't been using it as a tool to control behaviour in this life for thousands of years and it hadn't become such a part of most cultures I doubt we'd seek such sweeteners and would be able to get on with making the most of what we have here and now.
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Post by shrjeff on Sept 6, 2015 14:58:18 GMT 2
judaism puts no emphasis on an afterlife: when i was in high school i was flabbergasted when i mentioned this and a girl said that she couldn't live if she didn't have heaven waiting for her!!! she then quoted chapter and verse from the old testament supporting her belief... of course her english translation of the biblical hebrew justified this... just like 'alma,' hebrew for 'young woman' in isaiah's prophecy, was mistranslated as 'virgin' which meant that mary had to become an adultress under jewish law...
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Post by tiltedflipcurves on Sept 6, 2015 15:37:36 GMT 2
But of course there is an afterlife, as in, the family, friends, culture, and history we leave behind live on. The Jewish perspective (as I learned it growing up in the faith) is that there is a heaven in that afterlife, only it's one to be reached collectively in the future.
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Post by shrjeff on Sept 6, 2015 16:04:50 GMT 2
as i wrote, judaism puts no emphasis on an afterlife... as tilted points out, there is a vague idea of the soul living on for 3 generations - the time when people are alive who have memories of the deceased, but it isn't the idea of heaven as in christian belief... here is a quote from the 'encyclopedia of the jewish religion' by werblowsky and wigoder:
Heaven: the upper region of the universe according to traditional jewish cosmology. "in the beginning the lord created the heavens and the earth," but 'the heavens are the heavens of the lord and the earth hath he given to th esons of man' (psalms 115:16); that is, heaven is the abode of god and the celestial beings, while man has been given the earth for his habitation. the only specific mention made in the bible of an ascension to heaven is in the case of elijah (II kings 2:11); otherwise the bible is geocentric in its outlook. later, post-biblical, middle-ages writings go into detail but i think that we're seeing the influence of christian thought: "modernist thinking tends to the philosophical view that heaven refers to a spiritual state rather than a specific place."
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Post by tiltedflipcurves on Sept 7, 2015 4:39:02 GMT 2
No, I was referring to the concept in which "heaven" is the messianic promise -- ha olam ha ba'a.
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Post by wikki on Sept 7, 2015 5:42:52 GMT 2
In a book from Tom Holt, the Valhalla is described as a place where you watch white wet paint dry on a white wall.... Okay, this place is only for heroes and I am for sure not one of them. But it is a way to see heaven- very boring.
Honestly I don't really care if there is a heaven or how it would look. I will find out- or not. But I am very positive that there is no hell! The idea of Hell for me is just a power tool like the collective guilt. This is the first time that I put that into words- while doing so I can see that the idea of heaven is also a power tool. If you believe in it, it gives others power over you- I would say.
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Post by sophie on Sept 7, 2015 6:32:12 GMT 2
I like that, wikki!
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Post by auntieannie on Sept 7, 2015 20:28:11 GMT 2
oh, interesting, wikki.
amended to say that it is reassuring for me to see so many of you agreeing on no hell/no heaven. Because of my upbringing, I've never really shared my thoughts on the subject or tried to analyse any of it. Mind you, I am still having to assert myself with regard to not going to church. Now I can state that I don't attend; my parents don't like it but at least they leave me alone about it.
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Post by tinier_dragon on Sept 8, 2015 5:24:41 GMT 2
I wish I could believe in a heaven. I think it would be comforting.
If there is one, it'll be fun. With yummy food and cute boys and friends and laughing a lot.
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Post by shrjeff on Sept 8, 2015 5:44:32 GMT 2
If there is one, it'll be fun. With yummy food and cute boys and friends and laughing a lot. see how vague jews' ideas of heaven are?
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Post by tinier_dragon on Sept 8, 2015 17:20:21 GMT 2
i can be more specific if you like! in my heaven, you can also watch videos of any moments that completely befuddled you in life and receive a full explanation.
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Post by tinier_dragon on Sept 8, 2015 17:21:03 GMT 2
and dragons. there will also be dragons.
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Post by auntieannie on Sept 8, 2015 20:06:41 GMT 2
yey for dragons!
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Post by rikita on Sept 12, 2015 0:15:04 GMT 2
hm, one thing i sometimes wonder though - if there is/was nothing after this life, then why would it matter if one lives life to the fullest? it's not like you remember whether you did or not, afterwards. of course it is nice while you live, but afterwards, why would it matter? ... and of course there are also many people who just don't have a chance to live life to the fullest ...
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Post by pepecura on Sept 17, 2015 16:06:04 GMT 2
we damned organisms...
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Post by missalaska on Sept 19, 2015 19:54:16 GMT 2
People seem to need a narrative both in life and "after life" and need a sense of belonging.
I don't.
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