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Post by Grecian on Dec 6, 2013 0:14:03 GMT 2
Very sad news as there will be no one like him again in my Lifetime.
Rest In Peace and your 27 years in Prison - 18 of those years on Robben Island - was not wasted as you grew and upon your release....you let The Rainbow Nation Fly...as One...
Very Sad news...
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Post by outside cat @wino on Dec 6, 2013 6:26:16 GMT 2
Everyone seems to forget he was a convicted terrorist, but he did achieve a lot on release.
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Post by happytraveller on Dec 6, 2013 9:49:21 GMT 2
RIP Madiba!
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ruthee
Happy Potters
Posts: 930
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Post by ruthee on Dec 6, 2013 20:05:55 GMT 2
R I P Tata Madiba - a great man
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ruthee
Happy Potters
Posts: 930
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Post by ruthee on Dec 6, 2013 20:10:55 GMT 2
Everyone seems to forget he was a convicted terrorist, but he did achieve a lot on release. Please read his history and find out about the underground freedom fighters who fought so that all man could be treated equally before making a comment about him being a terrorist. He didn't fight for oil rights, diamond rights or wealth, he fought for my generation and the generations to come to live in freedom.
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Post by missalaska on Dec 6, 2013 21:53:27 GMT 2
Cape Town is a sombre place today, how can I tell? People are driving considerately! This morning everyone did look sad, I don't think it was just the wind blowing! There've been many conspiracies about him being dead long time, I don't know if it is true but at some point we had to let go. The one thing I'll say that is that it is very well timed for burying the Nkandla report.
Walter Sisulu's grandson, Shaka Sisulu was on the radio today saying that the most amazing thing was Madiba always tried to better himself and that is so true. A legacy we can take forward and a tribute we can live in his honour is to continually strive to be better.
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Post by Scrubb on Dec 6, 2013 23:50:19 GMT 2
Everyone seems to forget he was a convicted terrorist, but he did achieve a lot on release. Yeah, convicted by an extremely biased gov't. I think they found him guilty of treason, actually. A conviction of treason under the apartheid gov't isn't something I'd consider to be valid. I feel fortunate to have lived during his time.
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eti
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Post by eti on Dec 7, 2013 4:13:06 GMT 2
All resistance heroes who bravely fought the Nazi occupiers during WW II were also terrorists - a terrorist is anyone who uses violence to undermine the regime.
Now I'm not much for violence, but certain regimes are so cruel that it is not hard to see their terrorists as heroes. Nazi Germany and South African apartheid come to mind.
That said, typical terrorists also aim at spreading fear among the general population. I do not think that such was the aim of the WW II resistance. Or of the ANC.
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Post by Gobs on Dec 7, 2013 7:16:06 GMT 2
(I popped in here to see what is being said and of course it is a man I am passionate about so cannot keep my opinion to myself!!!)
Indeed a very sad day for South Africa, The World and me personally. Having worked on one of his lead Reconstructions and Development projects I have had the pleasure of meeting this great man. Being is his presence is something one can never describe, he has an aura and a presence that I have would never find the words to explain.
I attended the 46664 concert in Johannesburg a number of years back, when he was already frail .... he walked on stage and the crowd went wild, he lifted his hands to ask for silence and the stadium immediately went dead quite, you could hear a pin drop.
I heard the news at 3 am yesterday morning and waited till a reasonable time to wake my children and take them to Madiba's house, a true moment in history. African's have a beautiful way of mourning someone's passing and while the mood was somber it was also very celebratory. We laid flowers and candles and spent time with the crowds outside his house.
Mandela has fundamentally changed who I am a human being and has made me a better person and made me want to strive to be a better person.
One man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter and I have all respect for Mandela and what he achieved, but technically as a card carrying member of the banned ANC I too would be labelled a terrorist. So maybe my opinion on terrorist or not is a bit biased.
I really am annoyed by the conspiracy theories that they kept him alive for 6 months, for when the Nkandla report was leaked and planned for him to 'die' while his two daugthers were in London watching the premier of the movie 'Long Walk to Freedom', actually how convenient is that, that movie has just gone from block buster to super block buster.
How ever it was or was not planned, he leaves a grieving family, and he leaves a nation in mourning and he leaves a legacy that will be hard to beat. One of the greatest, if not the greatest, statesmen of all time.
Personally, I am devastated, I spoke to a friend who I was working with in the Peace Secretariat before the '94 elections yesterday and we both described a sadness beyond having lost Madiba, because he formed such a part of who we became as adults, because it is a time in our lives that we are both so incredibly proud of the work we did first for the struggle and then for democracy and then rebuilding our burnt and broken townships and it really feels like the light has gone out.
BUT, it is time for the father of our Nation to rest, he has served us well, he sacrificed much and he held no hatred or contempt, he forgave his jailers, the system, his torturers, he never blamed his ill health on the number of years he spent in the quarries on Robben Island, in fact he used to tell FW de Klerk that technically Mandela was younger than him (even though Mandela is older than DK) because after all he had 27 years rest while in prison.
Having worked with Mandela and seen him boldly walk past his body guards directly to greet the Induna's (chiefs) of the IFP, when our country was still under fire and in armed conflict, when the IFP and ANC were in conflict with each other, he put the risk of his own life aside and pushed passed his body guards to go and greet his enemy, unprotected, with open arms.
I have been in cavalcade's with the man, which were planned to the last detail, how fast we would drive, which order the cars would be in, where we would stop only for Mandela to see a child, elderly person, beautiful lady, drunk man on the side of the road, he would instruct the cavalcade to stop and he would get out and go and greet his people ... he would spend time, talking, asking and making them feel like they were the most important person in the world.
He was also known to suddenly tell the cavalcade to turn left because he saw something down a street that interested him, normally a school or a library or a disabled person desperately trying to make their way down to the main road where Madiba was going to be.
His home in Qunu, where he was born in rural areas, was open to his fellow villagers to drop in for a cup of tea during the times that he visited the area, normally during his personal holiday time.
He told me that I was a beautiful young lady, I have carried that for years, and Brian often bragged that if I was good enough for the President I was good enough for him ;D, and hell, he was a chalmer but I owned that phrase and never forgot it.
RIP Madiba
AMANDLA
p.s. we are all well, kids doing fine, I am doing fine, life continues and so far 2013 has been one of my better years of the last 4 so am hopeful that 2014 will bring an even better year. I miss you but my decision to leave the Pot was a good one for me and I am delighted to see that the Pot is as busy and as growing.
Gobs xxx
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Post by tzarine on Dec 7, 2013 8:06:58 GMT 2
thanks, gobs for a moving tribute
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Post by Scrubb on Dec 7, 2013 17:22:16 GMT 2
Thank you for that post, Gobs. I am so glad you came by.
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Post by Hedonista on Dec 8, 2013 10:38:36 GMT 2
Beautiful tribute there Gobz, and lovely to see you back albeit only in passing.
I have a Saffer neighbour who spent many years in the SAF and for a while was Mandela's private helicopter pilot. He is a white South African and a true and proud Saffer if ever there was one and he loved Mandela as much as you obviously did Gobz.
Its funny that I used to have a prejudice against South Africans in general having met and had problems in business with a few poor excuses for human beings over the years who happened to be South African. But people like you and my South African neighbour who has become a great friend over the last few years have totally changed my view.
Rest in peace old man.
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Post by missalaska on Dec 8, 2013 12:12:41 GMT 2
Or maybe you were just swayed by Spitting Image, Hedon?
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Post by itsasmallworld1 on Dec 8, 2013 19:18:32 GMT 2
Gobsie! welcome back even for just a post. Wonderful tribute as well. One question, what does Madiba mean? I understand it is an affectionate way to call Mr. Mandela, but has it got a special meaning?
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Post by missalaska on Dec 8, 2013 20:57:49 GMT 2
It is a clan name, itsa, and yes it is mark of respect.
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Post by Grecian on Dec 8, 2013 21:04:30 GMT 2
Great post there Gobs and I do appreciate what a presence he had within the whole of SA whenever I was there - National Tata Day - And everyone was in awe of him.
There are so few people that cause/d such Worldwide Respect as Nelson - maybe Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King and Gandhi. That is why 60+ World Leaders will attend his Memorial Service...
There's always a conspiracy theory when Great People die...
I am C&Ping a post from another Forum that no one has replied to yet as they are not that well informed (It is a Football Forum afterall!). I see there are a few above who know their stuff so any comments would be interesting...
"Mandela was imprisoned for acts of terrorism and conspiring to the downfall of a regime recognised as legitimate by the United Nations (whether this regime was right or wrong is besides the point but personally I think it was wrong); stockpiles of weapons were found on the farm where he was employed as a "farmhand" (unlikely as Mandela had attended one of South Africa's most prestigious universities) and which was owned by a co-founder of the South African Communist Party, Arthur Goldreich, a white ant-apartheid activist. Joe Slovo, another white Jew of Lithuanian extraction and member of the ANC was also involved in the setting up of Umkhonto we Sizwe of which Mandela became a commander. This organisation was responsible for terrorist attacks in South Africa in the early sixties and also took part in military operations in Rhodesia, Angola, Mozambique and in Namibia at the time where the threat of Communism had become more prevalent due to decolonisation. Mandela's presence as leader of MK (Umkhonto we Sizwe) was then seemed as a threat not only to the anti-Communist National Party but also to most western powers. For this reason, Mandela was kept on lists of terrorists in the US and in Europe only being taken off the US list (by Bush) in 2008 when he was 90. This is hardly surprising as Mandela had links with the Soviet Union, Cuba and the Communist bloc. During the various wars for independence, these countries had supplied tens of thousands of troops, billions of dollars worth of weapons and logistical aid to revolutionary movements such as the MPLA, ZANU and FRELIMO. Weapons were also supplied to the ANC and MK and throughout the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s and these weapons were used in various ways: supporting revolutionary movements in other countries being one of them. The weapons were also put to use in South Africa itself (the use of which would have been sanctioned by Mandela) where shops in townships were destroyed, local officials opposing the ANC murdered and, in the 1970s, they were used in fighting against the Inkatha Freedom Party, the Zulu anti-communists. The fact that the ANC massacred the Zulus, or for that matter anybody who stood in its way, shows one thing: it wasn't fighting a racial war (although the hymn of the MK does call on the populace to kill all whites) it was fighting an ideological war. Let's take nothing away from Mandela the man: change was needed in a country where there was little opportunity for blacks and he stood up to the task. However, let's not hide the fact that his and the ANC's methods were atrocious, still are atrocious and will undoubtedly lead to civil war in a country where rape, Aids and murder are rife.
A tree should be judged on the fruit it bears."
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Post by Peromyscus on Dec 8, 2013 21:30:13 GMT 2
Beautiful post, gobs. Nice to see you again and here's hoping you'll stop by again.
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Post by Gobs on Dec 9, 2013 6:55:46 GMT 2
Thanks everyone *waves* www.nelsonmandela.org/content/page/namesGrecian, what a load of bullshit ......!!!! (I wrote a long explanation for you but realised that you wouldn't be able to comprehend) Mandela resisted the armed struggle for as long as he could ... but you can google that to find the facts or better still read Long Walk to Freedom
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Post by Gobs on Dec 9, 2013 7:02:30 GMT 2
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Post by happytraveller on Dec 9, 2013 8:23:04 GMT 2
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Post by Grecian on Dec 9, 2013 23:16:12 GMT 2
Good Link there, Gobs, to The Foundation..
I just C&P'ed my stuff there as that is what certain people think and I would have appreciated someone like you to rebuff what they say...
I agree with you that it's a whole lot of bollocks/bullshit what that Poster said but how does anyone attempt to reply to it and make any sense?
I dare say by now everyone has seen the references to Freedom Fighters in Ireland and the names of Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness?...
So what is the diffrence?
I hold my hands up as I don't know....
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Post by Grecian on Dec 10, 2013 22:30:17 GMT 2
Looks like no one does but next time, Gobs, Don't Shoot the Messenger!
Great scenes today from Mandela's National memorial service.
Obama shaking hands with Raul Castro of Cuba a highlight....
Just what was Naomi Campell doing there with her Blood Diamond?...Oh well..
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Post by outside cat @wino on Dec 10, 2013 22:46:49 GMT 2
Anyone sing kumbeyah....(sp) I thought that also of those murdering pricks from the IRA and yes what is the difference between the IRA an the ANC , not much armed struggle against the government of the day.
It is just my view of the world and I stick with my belief he started as a terrorist did his time and then leads a country, unfortunately of course the presidents that followed are somewhat lacking in a lot of areas.
Good thread tin nuts.
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Post by Gobs on Dec 11, 2013 17:14:29 GMT 2
If Mandela is a terrorist we need more in the world.
I had the honour of attending Madiba's memorial service. It meant a long night outside the stadium the night before, getting chased away, coming home, looking for a plan B and heading back. It was bucketing down and I got home wet and cold but very glad I went, despite being tired and sore today (walking in the rain and sitting in stadium chairs for 8 odd hours in the cold and wet)
The Memorial unfortunately forgot the people of South Africa and focused on foreign affairs instead. However, it was good to part of this piece of history.
I had intended to go and view his body which is lying in state, but when I hear that people are arriving at 3am and only getting through the gates at 4pm I don't think I have the strength to do another long night, am getting old.
* I don't know enough about IRA to defend or compare. My opinion and views remain unchanged
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Post by OnlyMark on Dec 11, 2013 21:09:34 GMT 2
Apparently at the service the interpreter for the deaf did an excellent job.
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Post by Grecian on Dec 11, 2013 21:27:15 GMT 2
Yeah - looks like the Sign Language Person was shite - you got anything else apart from that to contribute on this thread, Mark?
"If Mandela is a terrorist we need more in the world." Indeed we do but what about the 'Terrorists' in Northern Island that Bombed and Murdered their way though to The Stormont Agreement - those very same people who commited those attrocities are now Members of Parliament!
Personally, I think Nelson has God Like Status; hence I had tears when news came in that he died - so why do I think that Gerry Adams and Martin McGinness are just Murderers?
It's a very fine line - until someone puts me back in my place and explains the whole Shite to me...
Anyway! Back to what matters!
Gobbs? How did you attend the Memorial Service at the Football Ground? Was it 1st come 1st in or were there tickets dished out? So many people must have wanted to go...
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Post by OnlyMark on Dec 11, 2013 22:00:49 GMT 2
Yeah - looks like the Sign Language Person was shite - you got anything else apart from that to contribute on this thread, Mark? Not really, no.
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Post by Grecian on Dec 12, 2013 20:44:59 GMT 2
Furry muff!
It looks like Zuma is on his way out after that showing.
Good as well as he strikes me of being like Mugabe - just taking the Pi55 and Riches out of his People.
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Post by Hedonista on Dec 13, 2013 0:17:38 GMT 2
The news here in Portugal is that our president Cavaco Silva is full of shit. Back when he was Prime Minister in 1987 he was one of just 3 UN member politicos who voted against Mandela's release from prison, the other 2 were Reagan and Maggie. BUt he was there at the memorial yesterday in Joburb along with all the other heads of state full of praise for Mandela.
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Post by Grecian on Dec 13, 2013 21:08:10 GMT 2
1987 is 26 years ago??
How come if he is so Shite has he remained in office all those years?
Ronnie and Maggie doesn't surprise me in the slightest...
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